Top 10 or Total Disrespect? Ranking Washington Redskins Football's All-Time Greats

Moore To Consider: Welcome to Moore to consider another Washington red skin edition. wearing the throwback Jersey from the 2002 season, the Levar Arrington Jersey, fan of Levar Arrington, the 70th anniversary season I have with me, Todd Young, Todd, how are you, sir?

Todd: Doing great, Jack. Good to see it. Good to talk to you.

Moore To Consider: Yes, sir. Okay. So Todd and I met, he's in the memorabilia game or he runs a shop and met him at a shop. And, he found that I was probably the craziest collector of Washington risk and stuff he had seen. And he's got some history in the, in around professional football and seeing some of the things we're going to talk about today. So I'm on X a little bit, you know, as part of the thing I do with the podcast is ⁓ do some promotion on X. And like I said, Todd and I grew up 70 miles from DC and he grew up in an area where also we were big Redskins fans and we saw some of the history, some of the great players. I did a show, ⁓ mentioned this on some other shows, I did a show recently with Clint Hurdle, major league manager, ninth overall pick, you know, played in the big leagues, played in the world series and managed in the world series. And I met him at baseball. conventions two or three years ago, knew some of the same people, hit it off, great guy. And I just did a show with him and we were talking about players from different eras and how players see the past and, even fans, how they see the differences. And we were talking about players from different eras and he was like, well, there's a lot of recency bias. And he brought up that term and I kind of looked it up. like, it kind of is what it says. People have a tendency to see everything as being better in their timeframe and however recent it is. And some of it they say, they say is because people just didn't live in a particular time. They don't have access to it or exposure to it. Now what's interesting is that I have mentioned as a baseball coach, I have brought out guys from 30 years ago. These kids have no idea who it is and trying to be fair apples to apples. You know, I have my Ted Williams memorabilia here.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: I love Ted Williams. never saw him play. retired before I was born, but I still, I knew who Ted Williams was and I knew the Mantles and Mays and the guys that were at the end of their careers when I was a kid. So I do think kids are, little bit disconnected, although they can go on YouTube and see every player you've ever seen. And Todd, you may have seen some of this. I find it fascinating. I'll watch young kids and There I've seen a bunch of these videos. have young kids and in basketball, they'll go, Hey, I've heard about this Larry Bird guy, this magic Johnson guy. I know watch video and go, Oh my God, who was that guy? And they, have no idea. The guys 40 years ago were playing like that. So, and what happened on X? I'm flipping through X and a guy puts up, here's my top 10 list of Washington Redskins slash that other word that they're now referring to the team as.

Todd: Right.

Moore To Consider: What do you think of my list? Do you have a better list, et cetera? So I'm going to read the list and then Todd and I are going to discuss the list. And in doing so, we're going to really get into the history of who we think ought to be on everyone's top 10 list. So here are the top 10 according to this young person. I'm not going to call them out, say who they are anything, but it's Daryl Green, John Riggins, Joe Theismann, Sean Taylor, Trent Williams, London Fletcher.

Todd: Okay.

Moore To Consider: Jayden Daniels Terry McLaurin Ryan Kerrigan, and this was the one I found shocking was Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins was a rookie in 2012. And as I mentioned, my friend Todd here, know, he was always the guy I thought that this guy, want to marry your daughter, mow your lawn, you know, do your dishes, good guy, but you don't want him in big moments. But the fact that somebody could envision putting Kirk Cousins on a top 10 list of franchise history was shocking to me. And I'm not trying to.

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You know, to dump on Kirk Cousins, but my God, it is a franchise. You know, he mentioned Thiesman. It's a franchise that also had Sonny Jurgensen and Sammy Ball in it. You know, and the Doug Williams thing got to be pretty famous when he won the Super Bowl. Mark Rippon won a Super Bowl. But to have Kirk Cousins in that list, hell, even RG3, you know, and he was a rookie of the year and had one of the greatest seasons ever. So Todd, here we're going to go. We're going to go back to the front. I'm all back to the beginning here. And I'm also going to say, cause I didn't go in down through it.

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: The position that person was known to have played and number one was the 28th overall pick in the 1983 draft. That was his rookie year after the 82 season was Darryl Green, who was a left corner played generally left corner. He, he, he was a Rover guy. would play whatever side the field, the top receiver was on. But Darryl Green, do you see Darryl Green legitimately being in any top 10 list?

Todd: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. far as defense, I put him at the top. mean, based on production, based on longevity, leadership. I mean, punts when needed in certain situations where the team needed him back there. yes, would be, far as defensively, from what I've seen with him, he would be ⁓ at the top.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. And the fact that he played 20 years, I think is outstanding and all 20 with Washington and you mentioned, I'm almost positive I'm right on this. I could look it up. I was at a wedding in August of 1983 and they played the Atlanta Falcons. I would bet money on this in the first preseason game. And the first time he ever touched the ball in professional football in their preseason game, he returned it for a touchdown and he got called back.

Todd: Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And I remember watching it with a group of friends after a wedding. went to somebody's house after the wedding. I'm like, Holy cow. That's the guy they just drafted. He can really run. Then of course, probably the most famous return he has is an 87 strike season. go three and O with the replacement guys and they draw having to go to Chicago to play the bears and they'd beat them the year before with Jay Schrader. They beat him again with Doug Williams and he returns upon famously he hurdles a guy, pulls some cartilage in his rib cage or something. And then he's.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: limping into the end zone, crying out because he's in pain. And I remember CBS had some boom microphones down there you can hear them all yelling, Hey, get off of him. Cause he's pretty, pretty damaged. comes back and he plays the next week and he gets past all of this injury. But that, that was a big moment. Um, we're going to talk about some of the biggest moments in risk and history, but whenever you run the reel of famous plays in risk and history, it's going to make it somewhere in the top 15. Probably it's, it's one of the great plays.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Daryl Green point being Daryl Green could have probably returned as many punts for touchdowns anybody ever played. But there was, but there was a risk of injury. so being the fact that he was a cornerstone at corner, ⁓ we didn't do that. So you and I would be in agreement. I not only say it would say he's a top 10 player. I think in anybody's list, he's got to be top three, maybe top two. Okay.

Todd: ⁓ without a doubt, without a doubt. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Now you realize they passed on Dan Marino to take him.

Moore To Consider: Hmm. Dan Marino was a pick in front of him. Yeah. Miami picked in front and took him. Yeah. No, and, actually, and well, actually one of the funny stories about Bobby Beathard and, and Darryl Green, you know, Darryl Green, I think graduated high school at 140 pounds or something, literally. And he went to college and he said, when he went, he talked about on one of the videos on the Redskins, he goes that, that mama told me there would be right now moment.

Todd: ⁓ he's an okay. Okay. Okay. That's my bad on that. Some hat.

Moore To Consider: And so when I got to this tryout for, uh, was it Texas A &I? I think it was the school. He goes there and they're like, okay, run the 40. And he goes, okay, mama said this is going be my right now moment. I put down a 40 times. They were like, holy cow, this guy can run. So he gets out of his senior year and he says, I'll never forget Bobby Beathard calls. And I, he goes, I'm somewhat aware. know the Redskins franchise. I'm somewhat aware who the guy is calling. And he goes, Hey, Darrell, just want to tell you, be by the phone first round.

Todd: Yes. Yep. ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: If you're still around, we're going to take you with the last pick in the first round, because they're the champions. So they got the last pick Darrell green, who's got a great sense of humor. He left. It like, was like, ⁓ yeah, Bobby, if I'm still around, like, I'm sure that I'll already be gone. Cause I'm thinking nobody's going to take me in the first round. Sure enough. I'm around and Washington takes me just like Bobby Beathard said, Bobby Beathard said, I'm going to draft you. He didn't believe it. He didn't believe it. And they did. ⁓

Todd: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great pick.

Moore To Consider: Got it. You got to say this too about whenever you're talking about Mount Rushmore's of people. I think that I got to give credit. I think, well, I will say this. What we think of the modern day Redskins passed the 50th anniversary in 1969 when they kind of get to the second half of the a hundred years of history. Now we're on the plus side of a hundred years. Lombardi brought credibility to the team that made a difference and it led to Allen and you got to give Allen some credit.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you did a great job.

Moore To Consider: You have to give Joe Gibbs credit. Joe Gibbs is in the Mount Rushmore, but the guy that I think was the most instrumental in the 12 year run with the four Super Bowls and three victories in the Super Bowl was Bobby Beathard. That guy had insane success and he came from the Dolphins where they won. He went from Washington to the Chargers and put them in the Super Bowl. So he's in the hall of fame. God bless him. passed away here a few years ago, but I was always a huge Bobby Beathard fan.

Todd: ⁓ yeah. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah. he was great. He was one of the best GMs in the league for a long time.

Moore To Consider: Well, when you're picking Mark Loretta in the 10th round, Cassely might've been right, but Monty Coleman, the ⁓ round, know, Monty Coleman is one of our favorites from central Arkansas that, you know, and I've told you this story about, the folks that don't know Monty Coleman, Monty Coleman was chiseled, zero body fat guy, was a safety at a small college converted to linebacker. And I'm at a baseball camp a few years ago.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And there's a baseball coach there from a school in Arkansas. And he's sitting around and he goes, Hey, there's this football coach. Somebody said he played in the league, but man, he's in the wave room. He's outlifting anybody on the football team. keeps talking. And I'm like, are you talking about Monty Coleman? He goes, How did you know that? I'm like, cause you said Arkansas and you said football. You know, Monty Coleman. said, I love Monty Coleman. I'm a skins fan dude. played for 16 years for us. Riley McKenzie, he took late in the draft and Riley McKenzie played 16 years.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah?

Moore To Consider: Don Warren.

Todd: Well, during his time, hogs, mean, that was Bobby Beathard that put that whole deal together with the hogs.

Moore To Consider: Yes. Yeah, that's right. That's it. Yeah. you know, Jeff Bostic was brought in be the long snapper and Ted gazelle had been the center and he beats him out. So that's a year ahead of the hogs. And then he drafts Russ Grimm in the third round and Mark May in the first round, both from Pittsburgh and Grimm becomes the hall of Famer and May was a solid player, but he wasn't the other guys.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Joe Jacoby is an undrafted guy from Louisville, which the famous story is, Bugle wants him and Gibbs is ready to cut him because he thinks he's just an extra defensive end. They got too many defensive linemen. He doesn't even realize he's an offensive lineman. the end, Jacoby becomes Jacoby. And then George Stock was the one guy from the past that had 10 years in. So they have this 10 year veteran at right tackle. Everybody else is young and they're really all coming in.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Minus Bostic, who was there a year earlier, they're all 81 guys. all come in in 81. And minus a plug in here and there along that offensive line for well, 12 years. It was that group. And if you had told me in 81 that the guy on the backside in the 91 season, when they won the Superbowl, the first guy to really break down and not play would be Graham. said, no way. Bostic still the center. Jacoby still on the line.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Schlereth has gone to guard. They've been able to, with Lachey, move Jacoby to the right side and Raleigh McKenzie is the left guard. So during that season, Raleigh McKenzie was the left starting guard on one of the greatest lines they've ever had. But Grim is kind of as shallow as his former self, but Don Warren's still playing. And that's another thing about when you're a fan like we are, you don't have that team making that run. If there's any way Don Warren could hear what I'm saying right now, dude,

Todd: Yeah? Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You were the most perfect Don Warren that could have ever been. He was a blocking tight end that made like a third tackle. He was an amazing player for what we did and he never got hurt. He never got.

Todd: Yeah. No, he was solid as a rock. Very, very instrumental in the success of the offense and general, the running game, past protection. mean, he was, he was like a book end over there blocking. I mean.

Moore To Consider: Yes, yes. And he, and he may not have fit in anybody else's scheme or he may not have been whatever, but you know, Clint and Clint Didier was another guy that they brought in. went to Portland state to work out Neil Lomax and found him and said, Hey, we've got a six, six guy that runs a four or five 40. And he looked kind of freakish because he's tall and he can put on 245 pounds and they made him a tight end. So, but we had a lot of freak players, the Monte Coleman's, the Don Warren's, they may not have fitted into anybody else's system.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: but they were long-term performance for us and they were perfect. All right, I'm getting too much into that. said Daryl Green, we're with that. John Riggins.

Todd: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. The absolute workhorse. mean, yeah. He, the, the, the fourth down touchdown in the Superbowl against Miami. mean, it was like, damn, my life's complete now. I've actually seen the Redskins win a Superbowl. I mean, he was, I just an absolute workhorse.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. It's funny you say that because I was 20 when it happened. And I remember that thinking like, man, I get to walk around town now, the people with all this Washington Redskins gear I've been buying through the years, not what I have now, but I had my Redskin stuff and you know, being a Redskin fan was kind of like being an also ran. You made a playoff every once in a while. You lost the Superbowl when I was 10. Now you're in, you're back in one when I'm 20. And was so on that

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: It was fourth down and one, and they, run that off tackle play that they ran all the time. And, I cannot remember, was it Don McNeil, think was the corner. He, he is in motion or he is trailing the motion of, think it Didier. I think it was Didier. The one was in motion. Was Didier there yet? Or if it was him, it was Don Warren. ⁓ it was Rick. I think it was Rick Walker. It might've been Rick Walker, but he

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, it Don McNeil. Yeah. yet? No, don't think Didier was there yet. It was Doc Walker.

Moore To Consider: I got to, got to, I got to check to see what your Didier came in. think Didier might've been on the 82 team, but I know he was, was, he was there later, somebody's in motion and on the motion McNeil's trailing. McNeil slips and falls, and then he has to get up and try to catch up to and has no prayer. And Riggins just kind of runs right over him. So.

Todd: think he came in later, we'll have check that. Yeah. No, not a brush them off.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, he kind of brushes them off. And I go from that, that moment when I'm thinking potential total disaster could happen on this place, stuffed in the backfield, any of these things to you know, as you were, I'm like, Hey, I'm kind of hoping here that, we're going to be able to pick up the first down, keep the drive alive. Next thing you know, it's touchdown. And then when it happened, I'm like, I didn't see that coming. We didn't see any of that coming. And,

Todd: Yeah. No.

Moore To Consider: And I think it has been listed many commentators, risk and commentators as the greatest play in team history.

Todd: Sure, sure. I can't think of a bigger one.

Moore To Consider: I'm trying to think of some that I can't either winning the first Superbowl, you know, I'm starting to think about all the other Superbowls because like in Superbowl 22, there, that there really was not as much a big moment, unless you want to say it was the first 80 yard pass to Ricky Sanders that started the avalanche, but it was such an avalanche of touchdowns in that 18 plays and five touchdowns. You don't have that one particular one.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: With Regans on this one, it was the biggest play. And I don't remember a Super Bowl 26, like one particular special play either. It was kind of an ass kick and it was a routing.

Todd: Yeah, it was huge. Yeah, team has to go down as one of best in the history of the league. mean, they should have gone undefeated. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Okay. I'm watching the play here. Let me just say this real quick. was Clint Didier. Didier's a guy. Yeah. And it was Otis Winslow that was a lead blocker, which I remember Otis Winslow, but I'm looking right at the film now. Number 86 is running back over. So yeah, I, I thought Didier was a rookie that year. I was pretty sure he was a rookie and I thought in my mind, I could remember him sprinting up and down the line. So yeah, he goes in motion.

Todd: It was, okay. Okay, that's right. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Otis Winsley destroys somebody. McNeil tries to catch up and Didier is running. Didier is actually running right behind Riggins. And then he kind of looks back over his shoulder. would have been in for the play. He would have been when they were playing the two tight ends. and here comes Stark. Here comes Grimm. Here comes Bostic all cheering. Rick Walker was on the field too. So, there we go. But yeah, I, in my mind, I was thinking Clint Didier was probably around then it was probably involved in that play. So.

Todd: Alright. Okay. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Back to the list where we're Yeah. Well, everything plays in my mind, like a motion picture. So I can remember like, think that guy was here and that guy was there. And I just, remember somebody went in motion because I remember that Don McNeil was chasing the motion guy or staying in pace. And when the motion guy turned to go back, he slipped making the turn. And that's why he didn't get to Riggins on time. All right. Number three on this guy's list, Joe Theismann.

Todd: That's a good call there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Can you see, you don't see Joe in a top 10.

Todd: No. No, and Joe. I mean, those two Superbowl, yeah, the win and then the loss against the red. mean, he great. I mean, he, when he first got into the league with them, I mean, he would return punts, anything he could do to contribute it, tribute to the team. would do it. No, I he was for a few years there. He was really, really good. But you don't have the longevity with him. Um, you know, that 83 season, believe me, he was, I mean, he was unstoppable MVP, but I mean, he wouldn't be on my top 10 list. No way.

Moore To Consider: MVP. Yeah. No, I don't think he makes the top 10 either just simply because there's so many great players in, in risk and history. But I will say, um, as we've discussed before, he's got kind of a strange career. He runs up against Jim Plunkett for the Heisman trophy. I've seen the story where Thiesman said he goes to kind of the PR guy at Notre Dame and they're like, how do you pronounce your name? And he goes, it's Thiesman. goes, no, no, it's Thiesman now. And he goes, no, it's Thiesman. goes, no, from now on it's Thiesman. So they teach him.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. you Yeah. Iceman for the highest man. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Theismann for the Heismann, then he doesn't win to Jim Plunkett. He gets drafted in the fourth round by the Dolphins and decides he's not going to get what he wants or an opportunity because Bob Greasy is there. So he goes to Canada. So he's up there 71, 72, 73. Then there's the famous film I've seen of him and I'm sitting there like watching the Super Bowl or watching the 72 season. Bob Greasy breaks his ankle. It's like son of a gun. I could have been right there on the field with the team that was undefeated.

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Instead, Earl Morrill takes them to the Superbowl and then they give it to greasy to finish the game or greasy gets, they put greasy back in during the playoffs. So he has this strange thing where he ends up in Washington and he said, why Juergensen's approaching 40 or it's his 40 year. ⁓ then, so 35 and it's like, those guys got no tread left on the tire. He becomes highly unpopular.

Todd: Mm-hmm. I don't Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Among the veterans, I've talked to one of the veterans and I said, how are you with the whole sunny Billy thing? He goes, we love them both. Whoever was playing didn't matter, but the one thing they were in concert together on was they didn't want thighs been inflated. So, and he's talked about the returning the punts brought kind of a side eye from guys like, come on guys, stop showboat. You're not, you're not a part returner. Although he had done that. He said he just wanted to be on the field. But the one thing I will say,

Todd: Right. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Part of the beauty of being a Redskins fan is some of the players I've been around and in different settings, going to Redskin camp in Richmond when they did the camp at summer camp in Richmond, spending a lot of time around Rick Walker and seeing Brian Mitchell. I've always had the greatest respect for Rick, Doc Walker. If you're a Redskin fan, you love Doc Walker. And one of the things he said was, tell you what, goes, Joey T was a pretty boy. He was opening restaurants. He was doing all kinds of crazy stuff and wanted to be in the limelight.

Todd: Yeah. all of them.

Moore To Consider: But the son of a gun was the toughest guy on the field. You could hit him in the mouth. know, famously, I think it was the Byron hunt hit he took in the 82 game against the giants when it was starting to snow gets all of his teeth knocked out in the front finishes against spitting blood. Gibbs says he looks over and he sees a gap in his teeth, you know, between it. And he's like, man, you're spitting blood. So as much as people kind of label him a pretty boy, I got to tell you this one too, that the football life they did on thighs when.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: That was one of the big moments. thought it was like a great man moment. He goes out on the field with, with Lawrence Taylor and he goes, I can still, I can still smell the air. The big clock up there said 10 18. I remember what the clock said after you broke my leg. And, and he goes, and you called me the next day, Lawrence Taylor's got the Stoge and he's huge. He's so much bigger than Thiesman. I've been beside Thiesman. He's six feet. And know, he's how he's towering over him.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And LT gives him the leg. Yeah, man, I called you and you're all crying about how bad you're hearing. goes, man, you broke my leg in half. And he goes, well, I didn't kill you. And if I'm going to break your leg, didn't half ass it. So they're laughing about it. But then there's this moment where Taylor looks at him and he goes, but Joey or Jotie, didn't want you to go out that way, brother, because I respected you so much. And I thought, man, that was huge. Like Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence looking at you and saying,

Todd: Yeah. It sure was.

Moore To Consider: Because I didn't want you to go out that way. And of course, I will say this too, I've never, I don't think I've ever said this on a show. Maybe I've said it once or twice. ⁓ this love I give to Lawrence Taylor who played for the Giants. He's from Williamsburg, Virginia. So I, ⁓ appreciate that. But you know, one thing you never heard about Taylor, think about it. You never heard Cheapshot. Can you think of one time anybody ever said late hit Cheapshot Lawrence Taylor? I'd never heard it.

Todd: Yeah. No, no. Now I never know I can't I mean he's the best probably the best defensive player I've ever seen. ⁓

Moore To Consider: I can't. He's the best. Yeah, I think that's true. But the reason I bring that up is I see so many people kind of, they don't know they weren't there. I was sitting there watching. was at Gardner Webb college. I was sitting there watching the game with a young lady at the girls dorm. I'm sitting there watching. I'm like, ⁓ my God, Thiesman just broke his leg. She goes, who's that? I'm like my quarterback, you know, and she didn't, she didn't really know exactly what was going on. But when you think back or when you listen to a lot of people, it's as if, you know,

Todd: Yeah!

Moore To Consider: The best illustration of what a ferocious player Lawrence Taylor was, was how he broke Thysm's leg. What he had happen was he was a 250 pound guy that came down awkwardly on his lower leg with his hip. That's about as little potential like, know, or this is as little designed hit to bring about a broken leg as you could possibly have. It's just the body fell a certain way. But in people's minds, it was a hit where he just, you know,

Todd: Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. Right.

Moore To Consider: Cross hair zeroed in on thighs when he decided to break his leg. It's not that at all. It was a, it was a freak thing. Yeah. it, it Taylor up. You could tell that, that, ⁓

Todd: Right. It was a freak act. It was a freak play. It did. I mean, you could tell it really affected him. big time. mean, he was screaming for the bench, you know, get, get the medical people in here. I mean, it was, I mean, you could tell it affected them big time.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just had a lot of respect for LT. I mean, when he was playing at 86 season, when I was really for Schrader and they had three losses to two regular season to play off came, I was like, can anybody do anything with him? Cause he's a Redskins fan. just say he's disrupting every play. He's destroying every play from behind. He's taking your back or

Todd: in the room. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: tight end that you're trying to bring out the block is backside of the quarterback and throwing the, know, physically throwing the guy into the quarterback. So we're talking Ranskins. We're talking about the greatest L T, but I think he has a lot to do with what Joe Jacoby's gone through trying to get in the hall of fame. had a hall of fame guy asked me, cause what do think the problem is? I said too much bad film against L T. And, that's everybody else too. No left tackle had good film against L T. They just didn't.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. You're right, right? I mean, yeah. Well, he couldn't handle it. I mean...

Moore To Consider: Well, he couldn't handle the speed. mean, straight up. There is a famous film though of game in New York where Grimm had to play left tackle and he famously bounced his tailor on his ass. He like picks him up and throws him back on a pass rush. Grimm was a great athlete and he was a really great athlete. ⁓ Jacoby was more of a road grader. When they put him at the right tackle where he more naturally could run over people. I don't know that he was the greatest pass blocker. Lachey was. Lachey was that guy. Jim Lachey.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: which is not mentioned here, but so the next guy this person puts in is Sean Taylor. This is going to bring about a lot of conversation. Where are we, where are you with Sean Taylor being on the top 10 list?

Todd: Yeah. Wow. mean, first of all, he's my favorite red skin ever. ⁓ loved him. I, I would put him in my top 10. I mean, he was coming into his own. If he lived, I think he would have been the greatest safety ever. just game against green Bay. I mean, he could have had seven interceptions. He would, they, was covering the whole field.

Moore To Consider: Right?

Todd: Just was quite the athlete built like a Mack truck and boy could he hit you. ⁓ mean, you knew when he was on the field, he ⁓ he would lay the lumber big time. mean, my favorite of all time, my favorite red skin, definitely all time. I had he lived, I think he would have been the greatest red skin ever. I truly believe that he was coming into his own, turned his life around. Dedicated to football as craft as family as girlfriend and his daughter loved the guy

Moore To Consider: Yeah, it was all really, it's crazy too. Like when Kennedy got shot or 9-11, when you hear people say, I was walking through my door where I practiced law and a friend of mine who's a judge now, we had been prosecutors together. He called me and I was in the door frame of the door and he called me and goes, Sean Taylor's fighting for his life. I'm like, what? And he goes, Sean Taylor got shot in his house. I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, last night, Miami. And I was like, what?

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you must. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: So then I go on the computer and I start looking and I'm seeing all the reports and everything. I just sit there, it was like a vigil. We all just sat back and hoped it and prayed that he was going to live. it was sad. And people are going to say like, yeah, you lost one of your great Redskins, course, boo hoo, you lost a player. It was everything else. It was one of the most emotional things. The 21 towel I have up here was given to the fans on the game after his death. Everybody around me was crying. They did a piece with

Todd: I'm out. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Right.

Moore To Consider: Clinton Portis and Santana Moss talking about what he meant to them. Man, it was tough. It was tough to go through because you saw a young life ended. we loved him as a player. That goes without saying. But again, I think a lot of people were starting to see a real uptick in his life. They were seeing a lot of positive things in his life.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. He, I mean, he was a wild man when he first came into the league. I mean, he, you know, he did the socks. He taped his face mask. You know, he, he would, ⁓ mean, he would do what he would do, but yeah, he, he, I when he, he, he was turning it around, he had turned it around and he was only going to get better. I mean, we just saw.

Moore To Consider: Yes he was. Mm-hmm.

Todd: a glimpse of how good he was going to be. think he would have been better than Ed Reed without a doubt. I think he could have been the best safety ever. was, he had that kind of talent. ⁓ just.

Moore To Consider: Well, alone, the fact that a university college Institute of higher learning could have Ed Reed in a senior year with a freshman, Sean Taylor coming out of the same school is insane. That's insane.

Todd: Oh God. I that that team, a friend of mine was the Nike football marketing promo guy, Miami, Virginia tech. They were one of his, they were his teams and I would go to the games with them. We would have all access sideline passes, the whole deal locker room access anywhere you want to go. And you know, we went to the game as 2000 to whenever when Sean Taylor was,

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm.

Todd: Was the freshmen with Ed Reed net that that team. mean, it was just loaded. mean, had Willis McGahey, Frank Gore, Clinton Portis, you're running back. Shockey. Helen Winslow, Reggie Wayne. Moss was there. had Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, the whole offensive line. You had Taylor. You had Ed Reed. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. Yeah. guess my Santana Moss would have been Moss would have been there too, right? Right, right. Yeah.

Todd: I mean, it's just the whole, was just unbelievable how talented that team was ⁓ Virginia tech almost beat them that day too. ⁓

Moore To Consider: And for, yeah. Well, for people listening to this or watching this, there's something else about going to a pro football game. Um, I got a buddy of mine whose brother played, won't say who, but it was a friend of mine whose brother played for the Redskins back in the Superbowl 26 season. And he was an all American high school football player. goes to a major university. He's a second round pick. And I said, what was it like going to the NFL? He goes, I'll put it this way. When I went from my all American status in high school to college, the speed of the game was mind numbing to go to college. When I went to the pros, it was a hundred times faster. It was a hundred times faster than college. And it takes a while to realize you belong out there because your mind has to process how fast it's happening. Now, another thing I wanted to go with this is all the live games and right over my shoulder.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It is.

Moore To Consider: You right back here, you see the Levar Arrington intercepting a pass against the Buccaneers. I had the ticket in the corner. That's an, did a show the other night, Todd, on the uniforms and this controversy over the spear, but I went over the different years. I'm not a white on white guy generally, but when they wore that white on white and that 05 season, that was bad ass with that darker helmet. So anyway, in that game, I was at the second level in

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ very nice people, you know, we, we, won, you know, in spite of Mark Brunel's performance that day, but, ⁓ there's two touchdown scored. Levar, Arrington can catch deflected pass from Chris Sims takes it down to six first play, Portis in touchdown. And then Sean Taylor picks up a ball on the dead run and scores on it and then gets kicked out of the game for spitting on a running back Pittman for Bay. But what I was going to say is when you're at the game and you see them huddle up.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You see a defensive line in size and shape. mean, they had those guys out there. Levar Arrington was beside Demarcus Washington, a linebacker listed about the same size. It was like a father son. How much bigger Levar Arrington? And now I'm going tell you folks, Levar Arrington was my guy. I loved Levar Arrington. I wanted to see him be the next LT. He wore the 56. I saw it all coming. I didn't like the way he got treated in Washington.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wait a

Moore To Consider: I got a friend of mine, it's a close friend of his that, you know, worked with the Redskin organization. He said, he's the guy you think he is. I was at an autograph show one time. It went to Hooters next door right after it. And one of the girls in there said, the best athlete I've ever seen come into these restaurants is Levar Arrington. He leaves a hundred dollar tip every time. He never says anything. He never flirts with, I mean, just he's a gentleman. He's a gentleman, always leaves a great tip. Love Levar Arrington. I, this weird thing for me to say in this, you know,

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: in support of him, but he's a good dude. And I was a big fan and his father was a Vietnam veteran. They said he used to go to Walter Reed and sit with troops and go over and visit people and no fanfare. Yeah. It was a lot of good things about LeVar Arrington and I didn't like the way he got treated. However, when I'm looking at their defense, there's LeVar like much bigger than any linebacker. Then there were the four guys in the back, the two corners and the two safeties.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, he was a good bird. Love that. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And I swear to you, Sean Taylor was linebacker size. He was as big as the linebackers and he was lean in the end because he lost a bunch of weight. That rookie year when he wore 36 before he went to 21, by that final year. So in 05, when I saw him, it was year two, he had started to lean out and in 07, his final season, I saw him move in a different way, but he was still the height, size, the shoulder width. He was a big, he's a big guy.

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: But yeah, ⁓ that was the best football player I ever saw. I've seen some good ones. I never saw any player come close to him. So if somebody wants to put him in the top 10 list, I'm down. I'm with it.

Todd: Thank you. I'm with him. if again, if he would have had a, had lived and played an entire career, I think he would be number one. I think he was that good. Hey, he. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Yeah, but if you're, like I said, if you're drafting all the guys that ever played for the Redskins and you could take that guy and his prime and his prime was 24 before he passed. And that's the only prime he was, he was allowed to have. You still take him first overall. If you got a guy that you could play like him. All right. Now, um, this next one's another kind of weird one. Cause again, I think it shows the bias of a young man, but

Todd: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: I kind of, I kind of liked the guy, I think I disassociate him with the team, even though his career was, guess somewhat split was Trent Williams.

Todd: I he's a Hall of Famer and I just it kind of like champ Bailey's like darned why can't. Yeah didn't my work these guys with on their entire career and. Yeah ⁓ and.

Moore To Consider: He's a Hall of Famer. He's gonna be a Hall of. Yes, very much. Paul Krause is way back. Paul Krause is a guy. He's rookie of the year that he's out to Minnesota.

Todd: Trent Williams will be a first ballot hall of famer. I just wish he could have played his entire career with Washington. And I mean, and he's, I mean, he can still play. He's still solid. mean, he, it, I mean, it's you get a left tackle like that, a premium position and they're hard to find guys like that. And I mean, he had stayed his entire played his entire career with the Redskins.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, he's good. Yeah.

Todd: Definitely in the top 10, definitely.

Moore To Consider: Something else I can tell you from a live game. I was at the Dallas Washington game, 2012, December 30, I believe it was when RG three, when they won the division in 200 yards from Alfred Morris and all that. And I was watching them go through warmups. they're, you know, they're kind of running plays off scrimmage and then heading up the field. Trent Williams can fly. don't. Oh, but no, it's no, it it was like crazy athletic.

Todd: Yeah, when they wanted the bacon. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, great athlete for his size.

Moore To Consider: He was a fourth overall pick. I don't remember what he ran the compound. I think he was like substantially under a five flat in the 40. I'm not sure he wasn't like flirting sub four nine. It was kind of crazy how fast he was. Um, so I saw him play and I saw the athleticism and from a big heavy guy, um, well, Trey Johnson's a guy that tragically died here recently. He was the same thing. He was shorter, but very, very thick, very heavy guy, but man, that guy was an athlete. He could play.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was.

Moore To Consider: And, uh, we just lost him. Gosh, he wasn't 55. It was even that. I don't think he was 57 years old.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I think he was. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: But okay, you got Trent Williams. There's a lot of other offensive linemen that are going to get some love. I think the main ones that have to get some love, if you're going to have Trent Williams, you always have to ask the question of Russ Grimm, guy in the hall of fame already. You got to say Jacoby. And I think the other guy that you have to think about, because everybody, everybody, I say everybody, I say that generically, but people miss on Chris Hamburg was one of those guys who was in the Pro Bowl.

Todd: Yeah, yeah, he would be in there. Yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: Every year. And then A good 40 years after his career or 35 years after his career, finally makes the hall of fame. when you, but when you look, he made the hall, he made the pro bowl every year. Well, you know, another guy like that, another guy like that that made the pro bowl constantly. And I never hear really mentioned is Len Hawse.

Todd: He was, he was. got the Hall of Fame, yeah. ⁓ yeah. yeah, solid center. Didn't he play center? Or, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: He played center out of Georgia, came in in 64 and played till 78. But I'm saying he had a string of seasons as a kid. remember this, you know, every year you're getting to the next to the last game and Pat Summerall is doing the game or whoever was doing the game. And you're hearing like, well, okay. the, pro bowls list outlets. It was always Len Haas. Len Haas was at pro bowl. It was center all the time. So that tells me if you're going through a career where.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. And Hoss always made it. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You're in the Pro Bowl, but I actually mentioned this on a show the other day, a guy that I used to sit and talk to quite a bit and had a lot of personal time with was Roger Brown. So Roger Brown famously was on the Detroit defensive line with Alex Karras. And then he becomes part of the fearsome, second fearsome, foursome after Rosie Greer was gone in LA and he had a restaurant in Portsmouth. And you could go in there at any time and see him. He passed away here in the last decade. Sweetheart, nice guy. And he played 10 seasons. He was in six Pro Bowls.

Todd: Hmm? Mm-hmm. Yeah? Yeah?

Moore To Consider: He's another guy and I've heard a lot of people bring it up like why the hell is Roger Brown not in the hall of fame? ⁓ if you make six Pro bowls, kind of in the conversation. I don't know the reasons why. I kind of thought so too. I so too.

Todd: Right, right. It should be. Well, I think Jacoby needs to be in. just find that to be ridiculous. you know, go back to like we were speaking earlier. mean, Lawrence Taylor, that may be what's keeping him out. He just could not block the guy, nor many other people. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Yeah. I talk, well, I talked to a guy that asked me that question that was a hall of fame kind of guy. He looked at me, he, studies, it's got Kirk Buckner that I do shows with and he does a show not in the hall of fame. Like that's the channel he does. he's put together a United States hall of fame. And I got to meet Upton Bell, Bert Bell's son through him and did a show 88 years old and great guy. I he was a lot of fun. But when we were talking, Kirk said to me,

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: What is the story on Jacoby? And I said, well, the number one story here is too much bad film against Lawrence Taylor. And he goes, you know, that's what I hear too. He goes, that's exactly what I hear. now the thing is Anthony Munoz, who I think is the greatest left tackle of all time, didn't have two games a season against LT. I don't know how many times he caught him in his career. Poor Jacoby. I don't see poor. He's a man. He stood up to it. Well, the playoff in the 86 season. Right. Right.

Todd: Yeah. I'd say three times a year again with the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: But I mean, he was guaranteed two outings against Joe Joco. I mean, against Lawrence Taylor every year. And a lot of guys didn't have that. Let's face it. Unless you were with the Eagles, unless you were with the Cardinals at that time, the Redskins, you weren't going to see him. weren't, you weren't, you weren't having to deal with the Cowboys. Everybody had to deal with them. And there's a lot to deal with for sure. Yes, he was. He made a lot of people look bad. All right. The next.

Todd: Taylor. Yes. Yeah. No. He was a tie. It was a ton to deal with. Yeah. Yeah. Joe was a mountain of a man. He was a mountain of man.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I, I was at an autograph show with them one time. This is a great story. was at an autograph show. Great guy. mean, like everybody kind of moved away and there was in the midst of the nineties when everything was terrible. I'm like, Joe, what happened to men like you that played? He goes, you know, maybe they'll turn it around. This is in North Turner time and you know, things are going kind of South and this lady comes up and goes, ⁓ my God, is that your Superbowl ring? He goes, yes ma'am. is. goes, could I see it? She could just about put it on a wrist. It was pretty crazy.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, was huge.

Moore To Consider: And then she's like, what size is that? He goes 19. And then what's crazy he then showed his wedding band had a clasp underneath like a bracelet because his left, ⁓ know, the ring finger knuckle was so jacked up from playing like a lot of these guys with bent fingers. don't know if you've ever seen Anthony Munoz's sit outs at 90 degrees and Baldinger that used to be on, you know, television, you know, these guys hands or digits are turned around.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: So Jacoby had a wedding band made that slipped over and then clasped so could get it past the joint. But I'll never forget that his hands are on the table and they're about as big as the face here of my, of my computer. You know, it's like, but really super nice guy. mean, really enjoyed.

Todd: Ha ha ha. Yeah. He is, mean, I, I tell you, I met him. I was over, do have my, I mean, just big into swimming. Yeah. My kids swim. used to coach and swim and, I was over at my gym over here in mid Lothian and there a swimming over at, ⁓ was. Riverside wellness center, wellness fitness center, Briarwood. They had a lot, they had the original long course 50 meter pool.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Todd: the state of Virginia. So there was a meet going on and some friends of mine were coaching. I'm going to go check the meet out and I go through the doors and just four or five steps go up and get to the pool and this big guy standing there and his big Joe Jacoby standing there. So his daughter swam and she was good at that. But no, I talked to him for about 15, 20 minutes up there. Nice guy. Huge, huge.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. He is a big guy.

Todd: But yeah, we were talking a lot. Yeah. That was during the North Turner days. So we were kind of blasting everything going on back then. uh, but yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was doing radio or whatever, you know, may have been doing the post game pregame and he had, he had a few choice words to say that he was great.

Moore To Consider: what happened to our team, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's kind of the, that's kind of impression I got too. All right. The next on this guy's list was London Fletcher. I mean, just to kind of go short list of the linebackers of history. talked about Sam Huff, Chris Hamburg, or some inside, some outside. You mentioned a great one, Wilbur Marshall. But what's interesting is London Fletcher ended up as guy, I think he played 16 plus years and he ended up as a guy in the conversation is all time leading tackler in the league history. But.

Todd: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: The thing that kind of changes, I love him, you London Fletcher is an institution in DC, but the thing is he had time with the Bills, he had time with the Rams. And I think a lot of people think the time with Washington, and I mentioned Bobby Wagner kind of getting the same thing. We're going to get a hall of fame level player because London Fletcher right now is in the running for the hall of fame. He's in that list of the 2026 candidates that could get in. I think he should. I think that London Fletcher was that guy. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He should get him. Yeah, he should. mean, had he played his entire career with the Redskins? Absolutely. I mean, the time he was there and it was toward the end of his career. mean, I can't say anything negative about him. He was a solid player, a great leader. I'll see him in a top 10. He just was not with the team long enough in my opinion to be there. But I mean,

Moore To Consider: But I don't see him in the, I just don't see him in the top 10 players. Yeah. But it's an interesting thing for him to.

Todd: That is an interesting one. mean, he's... I mean, he far past number 10. For sure.

Moore To Consider: So the next one was kind of shocking to me, but again, this shows again, when you're talking about a 20 year old and what does a 20 year old see the world as compared to what we see it as having seen the great teams. The number seven on this guy's list was Jaden Daniels.

Todd: well i i hope he's number one on that list for its over but not not enough this not enough there ⁓

Moore To Consider: Well, the other, the other problem for me is it's Jaden Daniels and Joe Theismann on this list and there's no Sammy Ball. There's no Sonny Jorgensen. Let's, let's wake up on that. But, but you'd almost.

Todd: Yeah. No, I yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even put Billy ahead of him at this point. yeah.

Moore To Consider: Well, I don't think that Jayden Daniels isn't more talented than some of the people involved, but you got two guys in the hall of fame. now Sammy Ball is strictly 16 years in Washington. He is a Washington risk and in the first 50 years of the league, he was considered the greatest player to that point in league history. He was a punter and a defensive back.

Todd: Yeah, ⁓ there's no doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure.

Moore To Consider: He had a four interception, four touchdown pass game in the same game.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Now people will say, yeah, no face mask, leather helmets and all the rest, but he only played in the area he could play in because that's when he lived. And you can't, you can't knock the fact that the guy, uh, initial class at the NFL hall of fame, 1963, he's in it. He's in the initial class. So I, Sammy Ball is in the conversation is one of the greatest players of all time. When the NFL.

Todd: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. all time,

Moore To Consider: When the NFL network did the 2013 version of the top 100 players of all time, I want to say ball was 13. I think he was 13. Yeah. So you had him in the top 20, you know, and of course that time they had Brady 20, you know, where would he be today? But it was 2013. But at that time, um, when you look back, you realize Sammy ball was one of the most respected players. And again, a guy that played from 37 to 52 some time ago.

Todd: He was, I believe. Yeah, I think he was, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. I mean, as far as Jayden Daniels, mean that the talent, the potential, I think the work ethic, he wants to be great. He's not a, mean, he's a hard worker. ⁓ I like everything about it. And I think he has the talent to be there with it. And I hope he is. mean, hope he is, love the guy. And, ⁓ so we, we gotta a little bit more of a.

Moore To Consider: I like everything about it.

Todd: Yeah, I gotta get a little bit more film on him before you put him up there.

Moore To Consider: Well, you can be picking a second year guy over guys with 16 and 18 year careers that are in the hall of fame. All right. And this is another one. This is going to come up again, but probably not as egregious, not nearly as egregious, I think a choice. And again, I'm not trying to poop on this guy's list, but again, I think it's brought about in large part by not really knowing anything about the last and anything in history past 20 years ago. So Terry McLaurin was the next selection. Where are you with Terry McLaurin potentially being?

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: in the top 10 Washington Redskins slash C team in history.

Todd: Nah, I wouldn't put him there. I mean, he's been great and he's had up until now he's had horrendous quarterbacks. ⁓ he's been, mean, he's given them everything that you would want of a player. I mean, he's, he's been He's been, he's been solid. was a little upset with the holdout last year, but a very good wouldn't put them in the top 10.

Moore To Consider: Yes. Yeah. One of the things I thought about it in reading that I think he's a standup guy. And when it came to the holdout last year, I didn't have a problem with it at all. He's got one chance to get paid like that team can now from the team standpoint, I thought if they passed on him and just said, Hey, we love you, but you're approaching 30 and what you were, what you're not. And we got to move on with younger talent. I got that side too. That that's a risk you take when you hold out, but, he.

Todd: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is.

Moore To Consider: I think about fate and chance and things like that. So I did a show the other night, on the uniforms. And when I did the show on Sonny Juergensen, one of the things I find most fascinating Juergensen comes to Washington in 64. He gets a rookie Charlie Taylor who's running himself out of being a running back. He, when he around the sweeps, he'd outrun the guards. was undisciplined, cetera. 66 Otto Graham gets there, he moves him to split end.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And Bobby Mitchell famously on one of the film says, I only saw three guys really make that transition from running back to split in or flanker very well. And that was Lenny Moore, and Charlie Taylor. Two of those guys were with Sonny Jurgensen. Right. And when these guys talk about West coast offense, when Bill Walsh took a Bengals team, when he was with Paul Brown that couldn't move the ball, he figured out the only way we're going to run the ball is to

Todd: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Throw it down the field a little way. So they started to do an extended handoff all moach. So these are crazy numbers by 1967 when Juergensen's in full throttle. He throws 31 touchdowns and sets the record for 508 attempts, 288 completions, 3,747 yards, which were all records at the time. And this is the part I still to this day, I think is crazy. They were one, two and four in receiving.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: One was Taylor, two was Jerry Smith and four was Bobby Mitchell. The receivers that led the league one, two and four were from the same team having the ball thrown to them by the same guy. And one of the commentators I said, I heard say that point like Jurgensen was literally handing the ball off 40 yards down the field to running backs who naturally had running back moves and elusiveness and the rest. And it was a thing. Go back and watch the film.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: They lit the skies up and they were good together. So I say all that to say Bobby Mitchell had a career prior. He had a clear career in Cleveland. had a little bit of time with Norm Snead, got a little time with Sonny Hall of Famer. Charlie Taylor, think in large parts of Hall of Famer because of Sonny Jergenson. Not that he wasn't one of the most talented players in pro football because he was. He was a third overall pick. The Raskins won a coin toss and got to pick him out of Arizona state. Jerry Smith is way underrated.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: 60 touchdowns for decades. He was the all-time touchdown receiver at tight end for the most touchdowns. He belongs in the hall of fame. No question. So you take Terry McLaurin, he ain't had no Sonny Jurgensen. He's not had any kind of Joe Theismann. He hasn't had any of these people. And so it's not fair to him until Jaden Daniels. And you see some step up in his game. Of course, both of them were injured last year. They were just both hurt.

Todd: Yeah. I believe he does as well. Yeah. No. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: But I feel for Terry McLaurin, everything I've heard him say, every way he's carried himself, I thought has been class. I think he's a throwback to kids from the past that were just like, you know, solid people, solid citizens. He's a pro. He is.

Todd: He's- Yeah, I he's a pro. I mean, he's a pro I was upset with the holdout and I don't think his agent did him any favors either. ⁓ you know, and I blame him for the season last year. ⁓ mean, that, it just seems, it just, nothing worked. Nobody was in sync period. but now mean, solid player, solid, you know,

Moore To Consider: May not, may not have, I don't know.

Todd: can't say anything bad about them. You really can.

Moore To Consider: You know, what's tough too is I have a real, I have a real heart for soft spot, whatever the term would be for that 0 4 0 7 Gibbs second run. Chris Cooley love Chris Cooley. One of my favorite human beings that ever played the game for the skin Santana Moss guy. love Santana Moss. I was a big Clinton Portis fan, know, Clinton, you know, so

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, me too.

Moore To Consider: Santana Moss has to be in that conversation too, because he's getting the ball thrown to him by Mark Brunel, which I thought was one of the low spots in Washington passing. Jason Campbell's the same guy as Kirk Cousins, marry your daughter, wash your dishes, mow your lawn. But he just wasn't that guy. God bless him. I think they shell shocked poor Patrick Ramsey. I think he could have been something better, but we've gone through ⁓ bunch of bad quarterbacks leading up to and including the RG3 thing and then

Todd: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Kirk Cousins, who wasn't the guy. And now I think we've got a guy that's a guy. And I also think that Jayden Daniels proves something. You give a guy 55 games in college instead of having one good junior year and then throwing him right into the fire. He was 24 his rookie year, or I think he turned 24 at the end of season. So you're getting a different guy who's had a chance to season in college, played for two programs and all the rest. But I think Jayden Daniels is special. I do.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. do. I, I think he's going to have a big year. I, I, know, Cliff Kingsbury, I mean, he did a good job as office coordinator, but they, they have to change the, the offense. They, they, they've got to put it Daniel's under center. They can't expose him running like they have been. mean, he's just not going to be around. They're going be looking for another corner.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, he's very, very smart about how he handles the run though. When he gets down and gets away, he's good.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as far as, mean, he's a great passer. I mean, he great touch. He can hit the long ball, drop it in there. think he's going to have a great, I think he's going have a very good season. I'm forward to it.

Moore To Consider: Well, looking back on something to clean up here on aisle six, to clean up, you know, when I was talking about McLaurin, I got into the wide receiver thing and kind of went back into the quarterback thing. But of course the glaring omission and talking about wide receivers and I talked about Bobby Mitchell, Charlie Taylor, Jerry Smith is a tight end. Art Monk.

Todd: We can't forget about big art.

Moore To Consider: I think monks are great. I'm going to go on this tirade again that I've gone on several shows. I really believe this art monks set a record in the NFL. had the longest ovation in NFL history at the hall of fame. And that was because a lot of Redskins fans were there for him and Darryl green. But I met him ⁓ an autograph show. Well, autographs given out at a charity basketball game that the skins would travel and play basketball. So Charlie Brown play.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Charlie Brown could play, so Charlie Brown, Gary, Gary Clark, you know, lot of these guys, ⁓ very athletic guys who were playing basketball. But anyway, I'm the year that Monk has just set the record in 1984 for 106 catches, which was unheard of at the time. And he, he leaves the league. literally retires from the league, the all time ⁓ number pass receiving most receptions in history. And it takes him eight years to get into the hall of fame.

Todd: And good-bye. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it was a disgrace.

Moore To Consider: And I may be, well, I may be wrong about this, but I think it's the same thing. This guy that has some kind of formula for measuring teams says the greatest team in NFL history, according to all of these, you know, all these computations, the greatest team is the 07 Patriots, except for the fact they lost the Superbowl. But the 18 and 0 to get there, to get into defeated, but the team that ran the table and finished the Superbowl and finished.

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: He said, and running all the numbers, he's got all these computations, all these types of things. He says the greatest team of all time is the 91 Redskins. And now we like that idea. Right. So I'm listening to this guy talk about the talent level, what that team brought, how they played, you know, all the parts where, know, it's, the, output of the parts was greater or the sum of the parts was, was, was greater. It was definitely a great football team.

Todd: Yeah, without a doubt. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: The Wilbur marshals, but Charles Mann is still a great player at that point. ⁓ we have some great players, Darrell Green still playing. So I remember going into that Superbowl. He used to stuff used to piss me off a lot. they're going into the Superbowl. I'm hearing all the sexy ESPN types. said, ⁓ Buffalo bills make me one of the greatest offenses of all time. Guess what? We scored more points that year.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ absolutely.

Moore To Consider: Then on this, then the next time you'd hear one of them say, yeah, and that, that Bill's defense led by these great pass rushers, Bruce Smith included, you know, it's gotta be one of the greatest defenses of all time. Guess what? The Redskins allowed less points. And I'm like, okay, so the Redskins are going into Superbowl against a team who's one of the greatest teams of all time. Yet in scoring points, they're better and allowing points, they're better. Okay. Fine.

Todd: Right. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And then was all this hype, all this hype, and then, you know, it was a much bigger beating than 3724. 14 of those points were, right. So here's my theory. When you think Joe Gibbs, defining characteristics to Joe Gibbs, what do you think of most?

Todd: ⁓ they dominated him. God, they're lines, the hogs. ⁓ I think the greatest coach ever. ⁓

Moore To Consider: No, no, Joe Gibbs, Joe Gibbs. I agree with that too, but you know the first thing I think of with him is what he would want me to think. He's a Christian.

Todd: What? He is. Absolutely he is. Yep. Very much so.

Moore To Consider: No, he's very much that, if anything, he, anything he leads with, I'm a Christian and he wasn't when he first started playing college and he used to, the old story was when he was down in San Diego, that he used to go down in bars and beat up Marines and was that guy, he was a tough guy and all the rest found the Lord and you know, okay. So look at some of the lives of the players there.

Todd: He is. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Daryl green, believe is an ordained minister. remember, ⁓ I heard a lot of stuff about Charles Mann being heavily involved in the church in the area. Art monk is that guy. So, you know, he had a team full of guys who have gone on to be, well, not only high character, they're men of the cloth. I mean, they, they are guys that are heavily involved in the church. Monty Coleman was one of those type of guys. So I always thought in a world. And I don't want to single out a particular player, but.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you were. He was. Mm hmm. Yeah. I character. It was. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Would it be fair to say that Michael Irvin didn't have the cleanest route to the Hall of Fame?

Todd: No, not at all. I do too.

Moore To Consider: I like Michael Irvin. I like Michael Irvin a lot, but what I'm saying is he didn't have the struggle in the hall of fame that Art Monk did. And I think that Art Monk was as great a player or better. I mean, I love Michael Irvin, believe me. I think Michael Irvin in lot of ways is, you know, is great guy. But I really think that what hurt Monk was he slept with his own wife. He didn't have any kind of felony charges or convictions and all that. I really do believe that's what hurt him. And what bothered me the most.

Todd: now. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: was Paul Zimmerman that used to write for the sports for sport wrote at the time for sports illustrated. He's on one of these questions shows and they're like, what about Mark? He's, he doesn't have a, he doesn't have a signature catch for me, not sexy enough and all this. So there's a guy during the time they're trying to get, to get a monk into the hall of fame that did like a 10 minute montage, not sexy was catch after catch after catch after catch diving, catch one hand and. ⁓

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Production.

Moore To Consider: Well, now more than that, the guy was sexy on the field. don't give a shit what anybody says. Monk was not some stumbling bumbling guy that just was all possession receiver. Monk had his moments. Monk was six, three, two, 10 and could run. I mean, he ran a sub four or five, but he was a running back. And Monk was physical and Monk was one of the greatest blockers in NFL history for a wide receiver. And I'll tell you who else was, was Charlie Taylor. Charlie Taylor would knock your ass out just to

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ he sure was. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And you know, there's a similar build. And one of the things that was heartwarming to me in the Gibbs years, who was the quarterback? I mean, who was the wide receivers coach? Charlie Taylor. And who was in the front office? Bobby Mitchell. The family was still there. The people that we loved. So I think Art Monk has been disrespected and taking hell. Yeah. And so I'm just, I'm shouting out for Art Monk because Art Monk brought me a lot of great memories as a fan.

Todd: Charlie Taylor. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he has too.

Moore To Consider: and I was offended. Yeah, he's the best guy on earth.

Todd: And I had a chance to meet him too several times and he was gold. mean, he took the time talk to you. He gave you his time and he was very, very respectful and giving. He off to, yeah, I got to get out of here, screw you or what. mean, he would take the time. He'd sit there with you for an hour if you wanted him to.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. No. I watched, I was at a game one time in 1993 and I was waiting to see the brother, the friend of mine, and I didn't catch him coming out, but I saw this. I'll never forget this. I saw Charles Mayen come out and I saw somebody, I'm assuming wife, family member, pull up in like an SUV type of vehicle, 60, 65 feet from the exit he came out of.

Todd: ⁓ great guy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: I watched him for 20 plus minutes sign stuff on the way to his vehicle. He take a step sign, pat a kid on the head, take a step sign. He didn't blow through everybody. I watched him do that. I watched Charles Mann spend huge amounts of time holding up his family. mean, ⁓ Charles Mann though, but he sat there step by step and signed stuff for people that flooded onto him. ⁓

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Moore To Consider: That was part of the that you had to be a red skinned fan to recognize the character and even Dexter Manley, who was to hell and back. Everybody loves Dexter and the whole community reached out to him to save his life. They pulled him back into the community to save his life. ⁓ He was, he was at a beach blitz a few years ago in Virginia Beach. He was one of the favorite people for people to be in there. And he went through everything, the drug abuse, all the rest. I think he went through a homeless period.

Todd: ⁓ love Dexter. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Dinner. And he made himself a really good football player too. Yeah, he was. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ he was a hell of a dude. He was a freak show athlete. That was another sub four, five 40 playing defensive nine. He came to Washington. His first camp. was the fastest guy in camp and he was like two 35. Yes, it was. He, well, he took the chance in the fifth round. A lot of people weren't willing to take cause he carried a lot of baggage. It was known he carried a lot of baggage, but Hey God, he was phenomenal. You know, the bench 500 pounds and all the rest, the body he was, he was amazing.

Todd: That's another Bobby Beathard find there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was. was. ⁓ Yeah.

Moore To Consider: All right. How about this next one? Ryan Carrigan, our person has Carrigan number nine.

Todd: mean, ⁓ a lot. I can't say anything bad about, about him. ⁓ mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he, he, he's right there. I mean, probably, I know top 10, but you know, he's top 15.

Moore To Consider: Can't can't do it. All time sack leader for the franchise. Well, I'd be asked the question though, do you think he's even, he the top among ⁓ ends in franchise history?

Todd: He's up there. I mean, yeah, with the sacks, he's up there. without a doubt. mean, you talk about another guy that would take the time, with fans. mean, I remember when, I was with my son and then he was probably eight or nine, 10, whatever at the time. And we're at Richmond flying squirrels game and he threw out the first pitch and. You know, he, spent.

Moore To Consider: He's gotta be with the sacks,

Todd: I don't know, 10, 15 minutes with my son, signed a baseball for him. ⁓ I was the new era. I was the new era cap rep at the time. And I went into the shop and got him the flying squirrels cap. He loved that. But now, I mean, can't say anything bad about a great guy. was great when the team was in Richmond or training camp. he remembered my son and took pictures with them, sign, you know, a football forum or what, you know, he.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, class act.

Todd: can't, he's right up there, Yeah. ⁓

Moore To Consider: I think the problem he has in this years of it, again, this is my old mind bias, some old man bias, sometimes like in the older players, but I think part of what hurt him was he was a really good player on a bad team a lot of the time. And with man, I associate Superbowl victories with Manley. I associate some Superbowl victories. So, you know, there's.

Todd: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, bad team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, just unfortunate. He was on bad teams. You a bad owner and no matter, just didn't matter what they did. When you had that cancer owner dysfunction, I mean, just weren't going to go. Yeah. You would have your flashes here and there. When the division, like 2012, but to get a championship, you, you, there was just too much. He was a cancer. just, I don't want to go there with, with the previous, I don't know. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: No, that, that ruined, that ruins everything. All right. So this last number 10 Kirk cousins. And once again, to all the fans, it's marry your daughter, babysit your kids, mow your lawn. He's your guy, but he wasn't, he wasn't special in big moments. How the hell any young, even young fan has him on a list of top 10 is shocking to me. And again, I don't want to, I don't want to pile on this person that wrote this, but damn, what the hell do you know about the history here? Yeah. Cause

Todd: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. What are you thinking about? Well, I'll tell you a funny story about cousins. Now he was another guy when the team was in Richmond, very giving with his time with, yeah, I mean, great guy. When the Redskins drafted him after three, my Nike guy and the Redskins was one of his teams. I texted him and said, geez, why would they take a quarterback at

Moore To Consider: ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

Todd: second after they took RG3 and his response was he said coach I'm gonna tell you right now RG3 will be a flash in the pan he'll be in the league two three four years he'll get hurt Kirk Cousins will be a solid 10 to 15 year professional quarterback he's not gonna be he's gonna be solid he's not gonna be special whatever but he's gonna have a 10-15 year career in the NFL. Now, damn if he wasn't right. made a lot of money. ⁓

Moore To Consider: I didn't want to hear it, but I heard it from a lot of people too, that were older people that had been around football. they're like, Griffin's gone in three years. He won't amount to anything. I'm like, know, that first year he needed, he had the greatest rookie season at quarterback in history. ⁓ But the people that were saying that I see problems the horizon. They were right. I didn't want to, I didn't want to believe it, but they were right. So cousins, of course.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: brings up a team, a franchise with a Sammy Ball, Sonny Jurgensen, Hall of Famers to even mention him in the breath of a quarterback that makes it. Yeah, that's, that's a joke. All right. So in, wrapping this up, I want to, um, I want to show you some things for everybody listening to this real quick. And then it'll probably engender some more. Here are the people that are associated with the Washington risk in franchise is 32 of

Todd: Yeah, that's a joke. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: We can go over them real quick who are in the hall of fame and some of them really, you kind of go, well, that was really a short stint. Some of them are obvious. All right. Through September, 2025, the people in the hall of fame, George Allen, clearly six years at coach seven years, champ Bailey. We talked about in and out of town, but he's a hall of famer. Cliff battles. Now we're going back in time. Sammy ball 37 to 52 won the championship in his rookie year. Bobby Beathard. talked about GM.

Todd: Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: A lot of the Gibbs 1.0 when we win, it's Bobby Beathard, Bill Dudley, another guy way back in time, thirties and forties level guy. Glenn Turk Edwards was an offensive lineman that was, ⁓ and there were two, everybody was two way that offensive line, defensive line was a pillar of his time. Ray Flaherty was one of the original coaches of the team. Joe Gibbs goes without saying, Darrell Green goes without saying.

Todd: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah?

Moore To Consider: Russ Grimm, we've talked about offensive lineman Pittsburgh, um, third round pick that, uh, made the hall of fame. Chris Hamburger, university of North Carolina. Took a lump number of years to get in, but a lot of pro bowls. Ken, that's exactly right from Hampton, exactly right. That's, that's a good pull right there. think his dad was military because I think he was born at Fort Bragg. I think then he ended up coming to Hampton and went to Carolina to play football.

Todd: Hampton crabber. He was a Hampton crabber. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: It was back when it was like 30 rounds. He was like a round pick or something. He wasn't picked very high. and he was considered too small. And I remember seeing him play as a kid. He was a 212 pound linebacker. Honestly, he played it like 212. It was a different era. ⁓ now Ken Houston's an interesting one too, cause I was shocked to see in 73 when he came in, what an he had on Washington versus.

Todd: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: He set a record for like, he had a crazy, it might say it here in his bio, um, career and exceptions, 49 interceptions for touchdowns nine. I want to say he had four in a season to set a record. think it was something like four in one year. So he is a 14 year career. He began in 67. He goes to Washington.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: In 73 following the Redskins, Superbowl lost to the Dolphins. And I want to say, it was something like, um, see if it says it here. Uh, Ken Houston was traded the Redskins for five players. That's what it was. I know it was like a five player deal.

Todd: Yeah. Well, yeah, that was back when George Allen would just, you know, he trade the next 10 year draft picks to get a guy. I mean, he didn't care.

Moore To Consider: You know, and I saw an analysis. It's interesting you say that because I saw an analysis done of that because as, as Alan went from 71 to 77 and was out, a lot of people thought he's ruining the team. He's given up all the draft choices. And it was a guy's whole like master's thesis. He wrote on a deep dive study of does it really make that much difference with the draft picks? And he goes, Jack Pardee didn't suffer greatly. And then Joe Gibbs comes in.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No.

Moore To Consider: And it's not like they're working after, know, cause Art Monk was the first, first round pick since I think Gary Beban or something like that. They hadn't had a first round pick since like 69, cause they were all given away. ⁓

Todd: Right, right. Yeah. Right. I mean, how many picks did he give up for Dave Butts? mean, yeah.

Moore To Consider: A lot. It was, it was a lot. It was a lot. Cause I think it was multiple, like first round pick, second round pick. was a lot for Dave Butts and he's another guy. I don't envision him ever getting into the hall of fame, but he's in the conversation of our, he's a conversation of our guy. Yeah. He's a conversation.

Todd: Well, that's another one. I mean, you probably won't. Yeah, he was a hell of a, he would, he would, he was a force in the middle of that defensive line. You couldn't move him and he was pretty athletic for his size. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Very athletic for six, seven, 300 pounds. Yes. All right. So Ken Houston, Sam Huff, we mentioned, he started off with the giants. He's famous there. He comes to Washington. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Back to Ken Houston. did was he the one that made that tackle on Walt Garrison on that Monday night game? Yeah, that Monday night game saved that game. Yeah. Yep. I remember watching it.

Moore To Consider: I sure was 1973. Yeah. Washington won 14, 14, 14, seven. So, so in that game, Sonny Jorgensen gets to start and he's kind of struggling and he throws an out pattern at the corner of the end zone to Charlie Taylor for a touchdown. Cowboys had scored a touchdown at seven, seven, pretty much all night. And then Briggs Owens, who I mentioned a previous show, I loved Briggs Owens. He was a.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Love Brighowens. Yes.

Moore To Consider: He, he was, I think he went on to be an attorney. He was really loved in the city. Anyway, he intercepts the pass, goes into the end zone, holding up the ball, makes it into the end zone, Craig Morton through the interception. Then they scramble to kind of try to get back down the field to tie it. And on the player talking about it's fourth and goal from or so.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: The ball is thrown out. There was a missed assignment. heard a whole breakdown on the play. was a missed assignment, which left Garrison out there on an Island by himself with Ken Houston. And he was a rodeo guy. He just passed away here in the last two years or so. And Ken Houston gets ahold of him and it becomes a real struggle to either bring him down or have him break the tackle. And he eventually pulls them to the ground. And that, yeah, that's one of the most, that's another one of the most famous plays in Redskins history.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, save that game. yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. And that was 73, that was his first year in Washington. Okay. Sam Huff is mentioned Sam Huff played 64, 65, 66, 67 for Washington and retires. He sits out the 68 season. Then when Lombardi comes back in 69, there's a history between the two of them. Sam Huff famously said that he and another player had had enough of Roy Lee Howell, the head coach was six foot five guy from Alabama.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: The two coordinators are Lombardi, offense and Landry defense. And he picks up his book, his playbook, and his personality has to return. And he tries to sneak in to one of the coaches and runs into Lombardi and doesn't run into who he thinks he's going to. And the bar is like, what the hell are you guys doing? coach, we're turning in. We've had enough and Lombardi talks him out of it. goes, man up. You don't want to go back to West Virginia and the coal mines, get your ass in there and get your work done.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: So he always loved Lombardi for really saving him from retirement when he was young. So 1969, when Lombardi comes to Washington, he talks to Huff about being a coach. And then Huff says, you know, coach, I think I could get back in shape because you think you could, you think you could play for me again? He goes, yeah, I think I could play for you. So he goes back out there and plays 69, 70. He retires for good, but big fan of Sam Huff. ⁓ but I don't.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Big fan.

Moore To Consider: The greatness of his career was on the front end with the Giants far more than the Redskins. Not that he wasn't a pro bowler. Now here's another one that gets note on the, on the hall of fame site. There's absolutely no connection to the Redskins other than a famous one last season is David Deacon Jones. So he's Rams to charges for a moment. Then he comes to Washington and famously in the last game of the season, they've made the playoffs. play the bears at home in RFK.

Todd: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And Alan gives kind of a sophomore day or senior day, you should say senior day and let Sonny Jurgensen start in his final season. And he gets a 21 point lead, 21 nothing. Gives it to Joey T the second half. And then Deacon Jones at 41 nothing says, can I kick an extra point? And Alan lets him do it. And he does it. So he kicks the extra point in 74. That's his only season in Washington.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember that. Yep. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And I've seen a lot of the stuff about George Allen's life. He was very close Deacon Jones. He was like very, very close family member like close. ⁓ yeah. Now Stan Jones is mentioned here ⁓ a guard, defensive tackle, offensive lineman. and I looked, I looked at this cause I'm kind of like, Hey, I'm not really sure I'm following. He played the vast majority of his career with the bears and came to Washington for one season. So it wasn't a name that really stuck out to me.

Todd: Yeah, he sure was.

Moore To Consider: But again, he's one of these guys listed because he had some touch with Washington. Sonny Jurgensen we've talked about Paul Krauss was very much like a champ Bailey mentioned earlier. He's rookie of the year in 1964 with 12 interceptions and two years, three years later, he's off to Minnesota and goes to be a hall of Famer. But he got his start in Washington. Earl Curly Lambeau also coached in Washington, also famously associated with the Green Bay Packers. Vince Lombardi, same thing.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did. Okay.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ green Bay Packers comes to Washington and broke my heart when he passed George. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I think him and Sonny.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, what what could have been. They were on they were on the day were on the right track.

Moore To Consider: Well, his first year in green Bay, he was seven and five in a 12 game season. His first year in Washington, he was seven, five and two in a 14 game season. A lot of the parallels were brought out. I always thought it was a little bit on the raw side. I loved it because I was a sunny fan, but Lombardi famously said, goes, if I'd had that dude in green Bay, we'd have never lost the game. If I'm Bart star, I'm kind of like, coach. think that hurts my feelings a little bit. But he did say that, that he said Sunday was the greatest quarterback he'd ever seen.

Todd: Yes. Yeah, really, yeah.

Moore To Consider: If I had him in green Bay, we would have never lost the game. had a whole different view. George Preston Marshall, the owner, Wayne Milner, another guy from the deep past, Bobby Mitchell. talked about Brown's first black player to play for the Washington Redskins. ⁓ art monk love him. See, and here's another one. Andre Reed. It's one year at the end of his bill's run. And so him listed as a red skin in the hall of fame.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, that was yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: John Riggins. Here's another one. Dave Robinson, famous years with the green Bay Packers. He did have a little bit of a time with the Redskins at the end. Dion Sanders one year, 2000 stole money from Daniel Snyder. ⁓ Bruce Smith comes in to get the sack record, but he's got no real history with the Redskins. Charlie Taylor and then Jason Taylor. Jason Taylor is another one came in. ⁓

Todd: Nah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nah. No, you don't. Mm-hmm. in at the end of his career.

Moore To Consider: Well, he came in too, because I think it was Philip Daniels broke his leg arm, something I can't remember. He broke one of his extremities and they were in like a bind. So when they went out and got him, I'm like, okay, Jason Taylor, you know, he's pretty good player. can bring him in. And then he had three and a half sacks. 2009. So those, those are the list of guys, um, that make the hall of fame. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you this,

Todd: He dead. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Let me give you this opportunity here to, to walk through this with me. And there's no right or wrong answer here and just start going. And I'm going to do the same to follow. Take a deep breath and think who has to be on your list of all time greatest Washington Redskins. Let's start there. Who's got to be on the list.

Todd: Well, I tell you who's up there. I mean, who we have mentioned is, um, is, uh, Mitchell. I mean, he, you know, he, Brian Mitchell, he should.

Moore To Consider: Brian Mitchell should be in the hall of fame. He's number two. He's number two all time and all purpose yards to Jerry Rice. Yeah. Brian Mitchell. Love Brian Mitchell. I have spent time with him at camp that that dude is awesome human being. I mean, that's, that's a guy that's, think the world of, yeah. Yeah. Always have. ⁓

Todd: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I love his commentary on his show, the red spit, the other games on his, his red. mean, he, he, I mean, he's him and Doc Walker are the best. think. Yeah. Yeah. They're the best.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, they are. Yes, they are. I actually talked to both of them the same day. And it's funny, I went up to him, Mitchell, Stuller Redskins, it's pre 2019. I think it was 20, I think it was 2019 camp. And I walked up to him and I Hey brother, I appreciate the fact that you give it to the ownership and you you say the things you say. And he goes, Hey, nobody tells me what to say. And then I said to him, I said, you know what? This really shows the greatness of Joe Gibbs. That Joe Gibbs came back.

Todd: Mm-hmm. You said? Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: and went to two playoffs given the environment. And brother, he looked at me and he said, Joe Gibbs is like my father. That was his response. I said, you loved him. He goes, dude, I loved the man. It's like, there's my dad, but Joe Gibbs. Like he's, he's like a father to me. And I had another player that I met that said the same thing. Like the first thing I have his mouth is like, Joe Gibbs is like a father to me.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: That's kind of an interesting dynamic again, that you have a coach with his faith and his background and the kind of man he is. And when you get your players talking about the guy was like a father to me, it doesn't mean it's always the right fit because sometimes you don't know when to let guys go, but he was pretty good with that too. ⁓ when it time, know, Thiesman kind of took himself out or Thiesman did the, know, to get the Lords of London insurance money, he had to go out there and do another workout to prove he couldn't do it.

Todd: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: But there's people that are said that 40 years later, the technology would have been, he might've been able to survive that bone break or not survive it, but would have been able to not have lost the bone he did and not be one inch shorter. Like he might've been able to have a better, he had a much better chance with his leg break than, ⁓ gosh. ⁓ Smith that Smith, Alex Smith went through, cause his was far worse. Cause his was a spiral flag fracture on November 18th, always also, but 33 years later. All right. So.

Todd: ⁓ yeah. Alex Smith. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You mentioned Brian Mitchell, but I'm saying starting off, cause I want to get you top 10 starting off. don't think you'd have Brian Mitchell as the essential can't miss guy. Who's your essential can't miss guy.

Todd: ⁓ for the number one redskin of all time. I'd had to put, I'd probably Darryl Green up there just based on his longevity and his production. And yeah, I'd have to put him up there.

Moore To Consider: Number one, number one. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And the reason I said it the way I did is like, I'm asking you to like, just think who has to be on the list. It's easier than to try to rank them. Just tell me the next guy that comes to mind. You're like, now that guy has to be in the list. Who's next.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I'd say obviously. ⁓ I'd say Art Monk.

Moore To Consider: Okay.

Todd: Charlie Taylor, John Wriggan's.

Moore To Consider: Got it. Yep.

Todd: Taylor would be a man. ⁓

Moore To Consider: All right. You said, John Regan's use. ⁓ said green Jurgensen monk, Charlie Taylor, John Regan's and Sean Taylor.

Todd: Yeah, yeah, Sean Taylor. see, I mean, I'd put Brian Mitchell in that top 10.

Moore To Consider: I can live with that. I think the world of them. great. I think, I think it's, I think it's merited too.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he should be in a hall of fame. I would say Russ Grimm put him in there.

Moore To Consider: He should. Mm-hmm.

Todd: front Williams is close. I mean, if he had his whole career with him, he'd be at top 10 hands, hands down. how many, how many I have on there.

Moore To Consider: You got right now 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, You got one more guy.

Todd: One more guy. that Sean Taylor. I I remember Kenny Houston. I mean, he was damn good. He was damn good. mean, for the time he was there, I'd, I'd probably, I'd probably slide him in there or somebody like Charles Mann, who was a great player for him. I'd slide, know, give the, the George Allen days, slide Kenny Houston in there.

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. Okay, if you go with what you

Todd: I didn't see Bobby Mitchell, I mean I didn't really see him.

Moore To Consider: Right. I did. I saw him play. Yeah. And you know, I had the utmost.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I tell you who my, one of my all time favorites and he's not top 10 was Larry Brown.

Moore To Consider: Well, he comes into the conversation when you talk running back, it's kind of hard not to have him included because we remember the 1972 season he had where he was the, um, MVP. He was the best player in the league. He, and he was absolutely abused, abused in the, um, George Allen system. He just run to death.

Todd: Yeah. MVP. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, they just, they killed him and he wasn't the biggest guy either. He wasn't the biggest guy either.

Moore To Consider: They just shortened his career. No, he was like five, 10, probably 195 pounds. It was talked about, but he was really, I mean, put together the guy was, the guy was strong for sure. ⁓ but yeah, I was a, was his biggest fan of him in that time of my life when I was a kid. I mean, these were heroes. These were big, these were big heroes to us as kids. And, yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Chris Hamburger, mean, I forgot about him. mean, I think he's got to be mentioned in that top 10.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. All right. Well, you've exceeded 10. mean, yeah, here's where I would go. I'm very much on the same page. I think Daryl Green and Sammy Ball are one, two, two, one, whatever. I think Sammy Ball has to be.

Todd: Yeah, we'll just keep it at that. Yeah. I mentioned Ben Mitch Ham as I never saw him, but yeah, he would be in the top 10. Yep.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, I just know the history and all the rest. gotta say he's there. My guy, my guy for number three is Art Monk. And part of the reason I got Art Monk three and not John Regan's the longevity with the organization being picked by the organization. And, both hall of famers, but I really think Art Monk left as a ranked wide receiver than Regan's a running back, even though they're both great. But I think Monk was.

Todd: Yeah, he'd be there. Yeah. Well, and like you said, when he retired and when Charlie Taylor retired, they were the all-time leading receivers at the time they retired.

Moore To Consider: He was. He's. Yeah. You are absolutely correct. so very to Charlie Taylor because he played with Sonny Jurgensen and he was part of my upbringing the rest. So one, I'd have Daryl green. Two, I would have Sammy ball three. I'd have art monk four. I'd have John Regan's five. I'm going to go with Sonny. I'm partial to Sonny. get it. I got Charlie Taylor six.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Moore To Consider: Now it's silly. really starts to get tough for me too. I'm, I'm not opposed to having Sean Taylor seven. just think he was, he was that kind. Yeah. He was that kind of talent. ⁓ I don't want to fall into the top 10 ⁓ saying, I to have a representative at every, position, so to speak.

Todd: Yeah. Wasn't there long, unfortunately.

Moore To Consider: But to throw in an offensive lineman, I'd have Russ Graham in the group. ⁓ I'd have Russ Graham. I don't disagree that there's a case to be made for Trent Williams. Love, love Trent Williams while he was here, but there's a little bit too much of he went to the other team kind of thing. He went to another place. So Darryl green one, Sammy bought two art among three, John Riggins, four side Jurgensen five, Charlie Taylor six.

Todd: Yes. Yep.

Moore To Consider: Sean Taylor 7 Russ Grimm 8

Todd: Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You know, kind of did all the, all the other guys. Well, it's tough because all the other guys I think that are deserving. Don't really distinguish whether it's Charles May and Gary Clark, a lot of other players. think a lot of them were great, but they don't scream out to me. That guy's that guy's got to be in there ⁓ some of the other people that could be in that slot. So I got a top eight. I'm not

Todd: It's topic. Yeah. Yeah. Now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: opposed to what you're saying, putting Brian Mitchell in, because I like Brian Mitchell so much.

Todd: Yeah. And he was also a great third down back. He really was and he could catch the ball. I mean, you got the ball to him in space. I mean, he was, it pissed me off when they let him get away.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Well, famously for the fans. Yeah, he'd been there a long time, but you're right. He could have had some more time. he was involved in the body bag game where a lot of people, because again, the redskins aren't sexy for everybody. Sometimes they like to beat up on the redskins. You know, I've seen the NFL films and they'll go like, one of the most famous destructions of an NFL team, six guys sent to the hospital, you know, the body bag game.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, the body back, yeah.

Moore To Consider: Well, what they forget to tell you is a few weeks later, they played in the playoffs and Washington came to Philadelphia and kicked their ass in the playoffs with, the injured team they had, they came back to Philadelphia, settled the score and kicked their ass in their own place. So I always kind of find that interesting that people forget that part of the saga, that the tail end of the saga was, you know, what they did when they came back in. So, Daryl green.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kick their ass. Yep, they did. and

Moore To Consider: Sammy Ball, Art Monk, John Riggins, Sonny Jurgensen, Charlie Taylor, Sean Taylor, Russ Grimm. You know, that I think of it, I think I got to put Bobby Mitchell in there too. I got to have Bobby Mitchell. For me, it's Bobby Mitchell I'm putting in. So then it's Brian Mitchell or it's Ken Houston. It's, you know, I love Brian Mitchell. No, it's not.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you do. You do. Can't go wrong with either.

Moore To Consider: It's not, I feel pretty good about that group. Anything else you want to say about, about your 10 or what you said there and ⁓ anything.

Todd: No, I think it's just spot on. mean, because I didn't really see Bobby Mitchell play or ⁓ Sammy Ball, they weren't on my list, but they're definitely top 10. mean, down, there's no discussion about it. They are. But I we have some on the current team that make that in a few years. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. Well, see, that's where I'm struggling the most with perception because I mean, I think back to, I'm I'm immersed in baseball and I see a lot of professional baseball. go out and see games in Norfolk. go to some games in Richmond with, know, double A, triple A players don't look as polished or as good to me, but it might be because I've seen too much. And when I was 20, I would have been like, Ooh, my

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

Moore To Consider: It's a sport I've played and these guys look so great, but I will say this. I saw Darrell strawberry incredibly good in the, in the 1980s. And the greatest player I ever saw live and in person was Josh Hamilton, which I happened to see in the ⁓ eight range approaching 20 years ago. And then a guy that I saw that had that same eye test type of look to me was Xander Bogart's playing for Boston in 22. I went up to Boston, my friend Tony Beasley that

Todd: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. He was awesome. You Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: coaches with the pirates was then the interim manager with the Rangers. So me and a buddy that went to college with the, Lewisburg with Tony, we went up to Fenway and I got to see Xander Bogarts for two days. What I'm driving at is there's guys I see whether it's 2022, 2008 or 1986 that separate and look good, look different. And in pro football, the last time I went was three years ago.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hey, babe. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: I went to the game where Juergenson's number was retired, you know, and I saw Sam Halthor a really good pass. He threw a long pass. ⁓ and I saw Terry McLaurin and I saw some guys I'm like, okay, that kind of looks good, but I'm wondering if my eyes when I was six, seven, eight, 10, 12 but I don't know. I was always pretty perceptive on. So like, remember with Joe Namath, I saw Namath play and he had the Lennox Hill knee braces. He could barely move.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: But man, he could throw a football. He could throw a football. When I saw United in 73, he was in his last year with the Chargers. The guy could barely move. was not Johnny United's anymore. So I've these things. I saw Charlie Taylor play a lot and Charlie Taylor could run and was rangy. And I think he's a to Art Monk. I mean, I think they're a lot of the same guy.

Todd: No, he couldn't. Mm-hmm. Alright. Need what? Very similar, very similar.

Moore To Consider: Both running backs converted to wide receiver and both same height, same weight. you know, so, so during the different eras, um, I was in an autograph show once this again, when I kicked the young kids around, I'm talking with them the other year and they're like, guys coach guys couldn't play today. And I said, you're going to tell me Jim Brown couldn't play today. And they're like, eh, I would say, what do think he was? And they're like, was he like five 10, one 75? I'm like, no, he was six, two, two 35. They're like, he was six, two. And I was like, yeah, look at the film.

Todd: Yeah, absolutely. Ha ha! Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And I met him at an autograph show and he was one of the most gracious, finest human beings. saw him in his seventies. And then he was nice to me. Jim Brown was nice to me. That all, I had the picture. It was one of my greatest memories I'll have. But I looked at him. I'm like, damn, Jim Brown's a big guy. I'm not a big guy at all, but I'm looking at him going, holy cow. I don't care what era he played in. That's Jim Brown. You know, he's, a big guy. He was a big gentleman. He was a big dude, you know.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. He's a big guy, yeah. Yeah! Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And so I could see the, and that same show, Dick Buccus walked down the hall. He was like shuffling because of his knee. Dick Buccus was big. I'll tell you who was still in playing shape. This is 2008. I'll tell you who was still in playing shape was Jack Lambert. Jack Lambert came down the hall. He's six four, man. When they listed him as six four, that's legit. He was that. He was six four. He was.

Todd: Yeah. Big guy. ⁓ he was a I loved him. I love. I tell you who was a good player with the Giants and, we used to represent the company. He was president of G3 sports licensing was Carl Banks. ⁓ Carl, I mean, we would go to those meetings. Carl, mean, geez, I mean, he's a big guy and he was a good basketball player too, but he could get back on. ⁓ like, geez, he could put the pads on him. He a year or two with Washington too. Carl did. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Yeah. He was a dude. Yeah, he's big. Yeah. He did. He did. He did finish up with Washington. He did.

Todd: ⁓ you know, he, yeah, yeah, but he, you know, good Lord, he's a big man. Yeah. Sean Taylor. I mean, I told you earlier when I was at the Miami Virginia tech game and we're down on the sideline for that game and going into the locker room before the game and to see the equipment manager coach and Sean Taylor sitting there on a bench, Justin is tight compression shorts, no shirt on. listening to music, mean, I'm like, good Lord, I mean, that guy was built like like granite. mean, gold. got to get this guy on our team. And yeah, they did. just absolute stud, absolute stuff.

Moore To Consider: You know, you mentioned banks come into Washington and playing. I remember the first shock of my life. There was actually one that was a ripple. Then it was a huge shock. I remember how much I hated Dwayne Thomas running all over us. And then he came to Washington. I said Dallas Cowboys can't play for the Redskins. Although I later found out there was a lot of guys that went back and forth between those two teams. I swear I was going to go, but the one.

Todd: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Calvin Hill too came with him.

Moore To Consider: Calvin Hill as a rookie in 69, so demoralized that team just ran all over him. At a Yale, I'm like, who is this guy? And then in the mid seventies, he's one of our dudes, you know, and I liked Calvin Hill, but that's when I went through this transition of seeing like the guys that were, in a sense it would have been like Roger Stalback comes in and plays quarterback for the Redskins. Like you couldn't have envisioned that.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah! Yeah. Now.

Moore To Consider: So I had that same feeling when Dwayne Thomas came to Washington followed and then Billy Joe Dupree did it too. No, no, Gene Fugit. Gene Fugit did it. Gene Fugit did it. Yeah, he did. He played really well, but yeah, he was another guy that played for the Cowboys. So it's all these Cowboys. I'm like, they can't come play for Washington. And then they kind of did. So that was some of those history too. But when you're a kid, it like, you, you don't like those guys. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Todd: He, Gene Fugue had played for him and he played pretty well for Washington. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. How dare you do that? ⁓ God. But those were those Cowboys Washington games back in the seventies and really the seventies. mean, just classic. It just, would drive me crazy at that. Just, I remember that Thanksgiving game with think Clint Longley. I'm like, damn, I mean, ⁓

Moore To Consider: 1974.

Todd: Yeah, and then the one where they lost in 78. I knew they were only up by 13. They're going to lose this game. it's 79. I knew they were going to lose that game. I knew it. And damn, if they didn't lose it in the last three minutes, they had a 13 point lead, lost the game. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: 79, 79 was the, yep. Yeah. When, when Reagan scored the touchdown, I think there might've been five minutes left. Now what people forget, but I won't forget this kind of thing. Thiesman completed a desperation pass up the field and Mosley was kind of in his prime. mean, Mosley, the, and one thing I will definitely give ground on when it comes to NFL players day. One thing.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Without question, they're better than they've ever been. It's place kicking. Holy cow. They're hitting 70 yarders now. It seems like it's our 65 yarders. Like it's nothing. But anyway, what happened in that game is they completed a pass. You can find it on YouTube. You can see the frantic end of the game. Washington gets one more shot. The Cowboys kick off after taking the lead by 1.3534. Field goal is going to win it. And then Theismann throws this like desperation pass up.

Todd: Mm-hmm. ⁓ my God. Well, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: There's Danny bugs or something like that catches it. And the team is scrambling around. They don't have any timeouts left or maybe, maybe it was one time. Maybe that's what it was one time out, but the officials basically come together and go, that's it ball games over. the pass play, I think put Mosley in the fifth. I'd have to go, but I want to look at that just to make sure, but I think it was like a 55 yard or would have been a possibility. He might've been able to write in.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which he, that he could have possibly made that because you're kicking off that astroturf. ⁓ yeah, the partial roof.

Moore To Consider: You asked her to turf it as a partial roof. There's, mean, not that the, not that the wind wouldn't swirl in that old Irving stadium, but, but I remember the redskins were leaving the field screaming and CBS was kind like, it kind of looks like they did call time and time or whatever it was that was supposed to have happened. ⁓ yeah. And now what's also happened. there was one of the games where. ⁓

Todd: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, ⁓ yeah, now that thing I remember that, yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Dallas did the same thing and came very close. And one of the famous games where Washington had come back to win. remember Drew Pearson being involved in a completion and scrambled around and trying to stop the clock and they, Oh no, I know what I'm thinking. I know what I'm thinking. I'm thinking about the 49er game. That's the one people forget. And I forgot it because I was thinking rescues, but no, in the 81 championship game, Montana hits Dwight Clark.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Then the have to kick off and Dallas has scrambled the ball down the field. And I think on the final play, there's a completion of Drew Pearson. He's running around trying to down the ball and get the clock stopped. And they, they were down the field when that happened. And would have been another footnote in history if instead of Montana, the catch, it had been the Cowboys broke a play and came all the way back and scored. Then it changes the whole history of, and that's the thing too. ⁓

Todd: Mm-hmm. and yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: I wonder to a fan back to the youth versus the older guy, maybe some kid that saw Jaden Daniels rookie year throw that ball against Chicago at home. Maybe to him, that's the catch. That's Montana and Clark. You know what I mean? To it may be looking at like, that's something I'm never going to forget. It was a, it was a moment for me, but you know what I think part of it is?

Todd: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it could be. Yeah, sure. Sure. That is unbelievable. mean...

Moore To Consider: part of it is what we were exposed to. And part of what we were exposed to in the seventies and eighties was NFL films and NFL films could put that symphony music to all these moments and then do, but then they would do some kind of a recap of the year before. And now you've got these different images than what you were watching on the game. You got more beautiful, slow motion, catching the ball, ball near the ends. So then your mind goes to the catch was really

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Moore To Consider: But I remember the catch because Vin Scully was, well, Vin Scully was calling the game and it didn't get any better than Vin Scully. So Vin Scully is doing the game and you know, Montana rolling out right and it throws and it's a catch and there's Clark in the end zone. You know, they.

Todd: I do too. Mm-hmm. No. Thank God, because I hated the cowboys.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. And Everson Wall has always caught a lot of heat for that play. ⁓ I don't think that play was defensible. There's, there's people that'll go to their graves saying that Montana wasn't even trying to complete that pass. Now I think that was by design, throw it to the back of the end zone, let Dwight figure it out. And where Clark came up with that, ⁓ you know, he said it's been a while since he passed away. I think it was Lou Gehrig's disease, right?

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yes. He was awesome. He was a great player. mean, huge, huge fan. Those 49ers teams were great. know, back to the Redskins, that 83 team, ⁓ team was incredible. I mean, ⁓ could see the Kinks and the Armour in the second half, the fourth quarter of that 49ers in the NFC championship game.

Moore To Consider: Man, what a great man he was too. He's yeah, big fan, big fan. I was a big fan. Well, the 40th. ⁓ Yeah. Yep.

Todd: You could see the kink in the armor. I mean, because I thought that team was unbeatable. mean, yeah. mean, Yeah. Yeah. No, no, they were lucky to win that game. They should have put that game away in the first half ⁓ didn't. And were lucky to win that. I think the 49ers really exposed them.

Moore To Consider: 49ers got robbed. The 49ers got, the 49ers got robbed. That game did not go, yeah. I'm the Redskins fan, but I would say that was not a fair ending to that game.

Todd: which the Raiders exposed to more in the Super Bowl. But going into that 49ers after the first half, thought that team was unbeatable Washington that year.

Moore To Consider: There's so much, there's so much that's talked about, like Gibbs has said, Gibbs has said this, other players have said it that, that shared that experience 82 and 83. And then actually guys that went further to 87 and 91 to the other Super Bowls. There in that you hear this a lot, there's a feel and that's why early on you notice a lot of teams, they lost it, came back in the next year, a couple of years, they won it. There was kind of a cycle of the first time you get there, don't be expected to win it. lot of them that people said it was preparation. So when the Redskins got to that first win, Superbowl, Superbowl 17, they're coming off a strike season. There's only a week between they've got, they've had to play three playoff games to get there instead of two. So it's a round, it's like, it's like a tournament play and they handle going to Superbowl a certain way.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Moore To Consider: And the story I heard was that Gibbs took the view the second year when they got back that they handled it a little bit tight. think they tried to kind of tighten things. had two weeks instead of one. They handled it differently. Now some players have said it was too much media hype, too much, taking it serious enough, man, man, we're rolling. You've gone eight and one, 14 and two back to back Superbowls.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And the Raiders were a tough team and that Raider team lost to the Redskins in RFK 37-35 earlier. That was a crazy comeback.

Todd: They were. Right. And that was a hell of a comeback too with Joe Washington.

Moore To Consider: That's right. Washington had to put up 17 points in no time to win that game. So that think that gave them a false sense of security and Marcus Allen did not play in that game. So you're minus Marcus Allen who runs all over us, but you're right. There was some things to be exposed. However, I was going to say the one record I think is untouchable is the plus 43 turnover ratio for you. People listening that haven't heard this before.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: The redskins took the ball from the opponent and aggregate for the season 43 more times than they let it go. That's crazy. Teams now that are plus 15. like they plus 43. So thighs been through like seven interceptions and they might've had three fumbles all year. So it's like 10 giveaways and they must've had like close to 53 takeaways. It was crazy.

Todd: Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. 43. Yeah. was crazy.

Moore To Consider: You're talking about a 16 game season. Think of the number of takeaways you have to have to average four games stuff. mean, it's, it's, ⁓ was, it was, I think 91 was better.

Todd: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. That was a great team. mean, it was a great team. ⁓ yeah. That I still think the 91 teams, one of the best in history. mean, Mark Rippon, mean, what they, ⁓ don't even think he got sacked eight times the whole year. ⁓ Yeah.

Moore To Consider: I believe it ended up being nine. They were going for the record and I think the nine. Or they, I, that's a great question. Um, I, I do think it was nine was what they ended up with, or it might've been a little bit worse than that. Number of sacks, Washington Redskins, 1991 season.

Todd: Mm-hmm. I mean, he was outstanding.

Moore To Consider: He was in that set up. don't want to ever take anything away, know, I saw some of the Joe Gibbs shows when he would talk about what they were doing, how they were going about it. And there was a lot of all in the block and there were times he had eight people in blocking and they were, they were in routes where it was monk Clark, maybe. And it was a precision route and what.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Rippon was without question was a phenomenal deep thrower. He threw well deep. He did.

Todd: He was, he was a maestro that year. Yeah, he did. And Clark would go out and get it. yeah, I remember the other, yeah, Monk Clark. don't remember the other receivers they had back then. Yeah. Ricky was still there. And I mean, I think Charlie Brown was already gone at that point. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. Sanders. Ricky Sanders was on that group. ⁓ the other kid, Brown had been gone. Yeah. Brown was gone after the 83 season. He was gone because that's when Calvin Muhammad came in in 84.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: Oh gosh, the other receiver. I'm kind of, I'm looking at lists right now. Clark Monk, Irvin Sanders, Gerald Riggs, look at Terry Orr was a tight end, Don Warren was a tight end, Ron Middleton tight end, Stephen Hobbs, Stephen Hobbs. Hobbs was a wide receiver.

Todd: Well, I mean, Darnus finer. Yeah. Hobbs. Well, you know, Ernest finer and Gerald Riggs, they were, I mean, really good running backs. Uh, was Ricky Irvin's on that team? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he gave them.

Moore To Consider: He was, was a rookie. I've sat down with him at Autograph. He's the nicest guy on earth. I loved him. He was really nice.

Todd: Yeah. I he gave them, I mean, he was a good player for them. Yeah. Yeah. Now that, that team, that team was phenomenal. They just phenomenal and they should have been undefeated that year. They could have ⁓ been They didn't play. They didn't bring all the dogs against that Eagle and that Eagles game. I think that they lose the Dallas that year too.

Moore To Consider: He's a really good player. He was a really good player. Yeah. No, they pulled out.

Todd: Did they lose to Dallas?

Moore To Consider: They lost to Dallas 24, 21 at home when they were 12 and O. So they lost that game, but what Dallas did, Jimmy Johnson bless his heart. That was their seven and no, see. That was the year they made the playoffs. They went from one in four, one in 15 to seven and nine to making the playoffs. So they made the playoffs, but what they did, they threw up a hail Mary with seconds left in the first half when it wasn't expected, like they're not going to do that. And they scored a touchdown out of it. ⁓

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I remember.

Moore To Consider: He absolutely, Jimmy Johnson played that game to win. He, he burned all the bridges behind him. He wasn't, he wasn't getting into, I'm going to worry about playing it. careful. He was not playing it careful at all. And he went for it, right? He went for it and it worked. And, I'm a big fan of Jimmy Johnson. I think he, yeah. Well, I, I.

Todd: No, he went for it. He went for it. I always liked Jimmy. I thought he was great, a great, I mean he could identify talent without a doubt. What he did with Dallas was Jimmy, yeah he made that Tertial Walker trade, but yeah he made all those picks work. And the way that he moved that maneuver, know took Steve Walsh in the supplemental and then moved him and got more picks. I mean he made those picks work.

Moore To Consider: Well, yeah, I mean, part, think the story was part of, what he did. he admitted it was con what he got out of those trades was contingent upon use of the player. So when he traded for these six guys for Herschel Walker, he told his coaches that we're going to bench him. They're like, dude, that's some of the best players we have. goes, it's okay. Cause if they don't play.

Todd: Right.

Moore To Consider: We're going to get second round picks instead of fourth round picks or something of that nature. And that's what he did. He took it and he just took it bad for a year. All right. Here's the answer. Sax allow by the Washington Redskins 1991 was nine. And I think the low number of contributed to teams overall success. They finished the season 14 and two. I'm trying to remember what the record is. The record for least amount of sex. Um,

Todd: That's exactly what he did. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That hat should be up there.

Moore To Consider: Cause they were close to, I think it might be seven. I think it might be seven. Let me see if I'm getting an answer. I'll just try this real quick and we'll close down. What are the least number of sacks allowed by a team in NFL history? I think it might actually be seven and they were, here we go. What? The least number of sacks allowed by a team in a season is four achieved by the giants in 1956. Okay. Well, sacks weren't even counted until 1982. So, you know, post counting the sacks, I'd wonder what the number is. They're saying four. Yeah, it's coming up in more than one source. They had four sacks given up.

Todd: Whoa. Three. Yeah. Wow. Well, we'll take that.

Moore To Consider: Okay, here we go though. Number one overall, sacks 56, 1956 season four. Then it says dolphins 1988 seven. That's what I was thinking the record was giants 1957 seven. Lion seven in 1956. All of these are pre counting sacks cardinal. Cardinals eight and 75 49ers eight.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, well they counted them. Right.

Moore To Consider: in 1970, then Redskins nine in 1991. So I would say as far as modern era of actually counting sacks, the Dolphins seven in 1988 would be the record. Cause that's post, that's post counting sacks and it's saying seven, the only other team post 1982 is the Redskins. So that was my memory. Seven stuck in my mind because I thought they had a shot at it.

Todd: That was. Right. Right. That's what I thought they were too, yeah.

Moore To Consider: They had a shot at the record and they gave up two and that was like, oopsie. Now it's gone eight, nine. Now nine doesn't beat seven. but yeah, but in 16 games, was insanely, but, again, the stuff that I would watch some of these shows where Gibbs would go into the, what they were actually doing to set these plays up. And it was mass protection or max protection. should say they, they protected ripping to have all the time in the world to throw routes.

Todd: Mm-hmm. ⁓ he could sit back there and drink a six pack on some of those. mean, he wasn't the most mobile guy either.

Moore To Consider: Exactly. That's then he, and he did. And I think he, he wasn't, he wasn't, but he was a good touch pastor deep. So God bless him. won a super bowl. ⁓ and then.

Todd: He was. ⁓ he was great. He was absolutely great. but no, mean, those were great memories and you know, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping that we, I hoping we could build something with the current team and, know, hopefully this draft will be a start at it. But, you know, I, it's going to be interesting to see what they, what they do coming up. ⁓

Moore To Consider: to draw me all the imagery of bringing back uniforms and things like that. It's helping. helping. When I look down there.

Todd: They're getting us there. They're doing everything they could do right now.

Moore To Consider: Well, you know, they're catching heat. just did a whole show on this. That's just saw there is a native American group that's come out and said, look out what you guys are doing. You're getting the nose under the tent again. You're doing the same thing. And they're all been out of shape about the arrow or spear should say spear on the side of the helmet. And then the commanders are coming back. ⁓ no, no, no. That's like a Greco Roman there. It's like from some other ancient civilization.

Todd: Mm-hmm Yeah. Right.

Moore To Consider: And people are like, no, you're trying to what the hell association to the past that I'd have with this team. So the two uniforms that I made this point in the show, I just did those two uniforms, white over Burgundy and Burgundy over white. That is the old uniform. is exactly. No, no, no, no. I mean, more than the team, it's the uniform. It's the, it's the modern version of the Jersey color, the trim around the numbers and the sleeve trim is the same.

Todd: Yeah. that every that's that's our team right there It's the uniform.

Moore To Consider: So they're not, they're not disguising it anymore. Now what they've done with the helmet is they've taken the old John two guns white calf off, but they have striped it down the center, just like the old. they've gone back to glossy. They got out of that matte finish there. They are going to look like our Washington redskins of the eighties when it comes time. Mine is the logo. And that's why.

Todd: It's exact same. Yep. Yep. That's exactly right. That's exactly Minus the logo. Minus... Yeah.

Moore To Consider: I think some of these people are getting upset because they're like, if you don't watch you guys sooner or later, you're to slip the logo back in. I think that's coming. Now the question is, well, the question is if you're going to go that far, then bring back the damn name. Bring back the name. Yeah.

Todd: It's coming. Just bring the name back. Just bring the name back. You know, if I paid six billion dollars for a franchise, that's... it's going back. Alright? You don't... I don't care what you... you don't like it, don't come. I mean, you know.

Moore To Consider: Well, and I mentioned that like Josh Harris is a Chevy chase native. So what was that? 25 minutes outside of the city. So I don't know ⁓ that Chevy chases in the vicinity. Don't you think, and I mentioned this the other day, he's a billionaire, but don't you think he's had a, like a barbecue out back or something like that? He puts a Zeper on, he's turning hamburgers and he's got friends that he grew up with like, dude, change it back to Redskins already. We grew up.

Todd: Yes. Yeah. Just do it, just do it.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, we grew up in the neighborhood, brother. Like we were all Redskins fans. I know he wants to. I know, I know he wants to. I think he's been holding that because he doesn't want to screw up the city deal, you know, stadium and all that kind of stuff.

Todd: He does. Thank you wants to get this stadium done and then you they're going to do what it's going to be then.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. I think you're right. And I think, well, depending on where the country is by that time, who, who the hell knows, but, ⁓ now I would really be back in if, if the name came back, the uniform came back, John two guns, white caps on the side of that helmet. That is still the greatest helmet NFL history. I don't care. Anybody says greatest helmet ever. If, if all that, if all that imagery comes back, I'm in, I'm

Todd: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ it's awesome. It's awesome. It's beautiful. 100 % absolutely and I think it might I think I think it might but it's gonna happen when they move to the new stadium ⁓ Plus you got to give the league you got to give the I think it's I mean that's not something you know, you got to give the league a couple years notice that you're doing a branding change and for product and what have you? But now I think it ⁓ a possibility he's gone giving you

Moore To Consider: Yeah, and I wanna be-

Todd: everything you want right now. it's yeah, minus the name. would not, I want that logo back, but in the meantime, go ahead and slide that spear on the burgundy helmet and, put it through the W hell just get rid of the W and put the spear up there on the helmet. That'd be cool. Yeah. And I, and as far as the black uniforms,

Moore To Consider: minus the name. Well, I want the logo, I want the logo back on the helmet. Well, they did it on the black helmet, and that's the look right now for the black helmet.

Todd: I didn't necessarily like the current ones that they had been using. just, I didn't like them. They're horrible as were red ones. They're not burgundy. They were red. I didn't like the gradient. I what they going back to the old redskins look as far as the black one. I like it. I think it looks pretty cool with the burgundy block letter with the, with the gold outline. mean, with the, with the, pants and with the stripes and all, mean, I,

Moore To Consider: They were terrible. They were terrible. Yeah. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it.

Todd: I think it looks great. new one with, and I love the helmet with the spear through the W.

Moore To Consider: I'd give anything. I would give anything for just to have, that would be my wish for life is that they let me handle uniforms. If, if I could, cause I would do the gold over the throwback like they wore in 2007. I would do, I would do this color with the plum helmet again with the gold pants. And I, and I would go to that darker burgundy helmet with John two guns, white calf.

Todd: ⁓ huh. Yep. ⁓ yeah.

Moore To Consider: and go back to the green Bay trim, go back to the actual green Bay trim, like what Jurgensen worn 69 with Lombardi. And I would come back with the green Bay gold pants, but in a different, little bit different tone. There's so many things you could do with that, but I would, I would want to see the spear on the helmet. want to see the R on the helmet and I want to see the two guns white calf back.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can and... Yeah, I'd love to see that. mean, you know, the spear, would you bring it back it looked then? Would you dress it up and modernize her just as it was? Okay.

Moore To Consider: No, as it looked then. That's me. Because I think, and there's a lot of YouTube channels where people are showing old films and games. I think the way guys tuck their jerseys in, the cut of the uniforms, I think the 70s and 60s even, the 60s. When you see the film of the old Vikings, the purple, now they're into the matte finish helmets and the jersey look blue. Now you go back and look.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Uh, I'll tell you who had the best looking uniform. Okay. Not that, but one of the best, the red skins of the plum over the, uh, over the mustard colored pants was bad-ass with that plum helmet. But the team that totally lost the plot and looks awful now is Detroit. Man in the, in the seventies. I always think of Lynn Barney as being the best looking guy in a uniform, but when they wore that Honolulu blue and the gray pants and they had the great, they had the helmet with the, with the lion.

Todd: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: They've screwed all, all the black wrote into it, the different shades of blue. It's all bullshit. It just looks terrible now. And yeah, I was a. Yeah. I was a fan of the old school. See how yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the Seahawks one looks like shit too. mean, they, they should go back to the year, the blue that uniform. They beat Washington when they played Washington last year that they, need to go to that with the silver helmet, ⁓ but the blue Jersey, mean that in the gold pant, I mean, those were classic. mean, I like classic clean you know, ⁓

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Well, it's hard. It's hard to like these guys too. mean, this thing of wearing a Jersey that's him to their waistline with some different shade of t-shirt hanging eight inches outside the Jersey. This is how these guys dress. And I just think players look better when the jerseys were in the pants and that's, you know, they were just better looking situations. Now in that picture again, I am of this.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: At that time, well, I got one here. I'm to, I'm going to go to the trouble of pulling one of these out for all the fans to see this. Other stuff's going to fall, but this is a helmet that was from the 2010s. And if you hold it, if you hold it, it's the VSR four. It's a, it's um, Riddell. Um, if you hold it against some of the helmets.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: From like the Gibbs era, first time around, those things were Cardinal color. They were very similar to that Cardinal helmet up here that I have from 69. So what they did, and you can see it in the picture, if you can kind of see the picture back here of Levar Errington, that 2005 playoff game. They, they not to this level of shade, even you can see these don't shade up, but when they wore that white, those Jersey numbers were getting darker and the gold was perfect in the white.

Todd: Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: I never thought I would have liked as much because I'm not a white uniform guy. never liked the road uniform or white pants. I always liked the gold pants. But when they put that white over white with that dark helmet like this, it looked great with this helmet. When this helmet was darkened like this and they were wearing the white uniforms, man, plus the guys were on the field when they had Levar and Sean Taylor and some of the guys they have playing. He did. He did. He did.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The white and white look good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Sean Taylor looked really good in that. He looked great.

Moore To Consider: And they wore the high burgundy socks. It was badass. It was a good look and I was there for that game. That defense was incredible.

Todd: Yeah. Well. I'm glad to see them change that though. looks good. mean, I was watching the draft tonight when they drafted Sonny Styles. bought the new burgundy Jersey out and the nameplate, the way that the names, ⁓ font they use. I mean, I'm well, damn, that looks good. There we go. you know, I'm looking, I'm to see that. Glad to see that. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about trying to recreate the past. It's always has its pitfalls and the rest. So I do think about the fact though, that Lombardi to Allen was an upgrade. Clearly. I mean, it was a time that we were turning the corner. Pardee was a 500 coach. He went six and 10, 10 and six and eight and eight. So he was a 500 coach. None of us can possibly say we saw Joe Gibbs coming. We did not know what we had. The 0 and 5 start, then the run that he had.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No.

Moore To Consider: Four super bowls, three victories. So since then, other than him coming back has, you know, Dan Quinn, nice guy. get, I, I have not seen. We've had three great coaches there in Lombardi, Allen and, know, in the curly Lambos and the Flaherties and all that, they may have been great at different time period, but I, Allen a good coach. and he wasn't my favorite.

Todd: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yes.

Moore To Consider: Lombardi was the best coach ever. And Joe Gibbs is right there. And I will say this, I was watching Rich Eisen one day. I love Rich Eisen's show. And he had a guy come on and he wrote a book. could probably, anybody researching this could find it. It was a book on Walsh, Bill Walsh ⁓ Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs. And was two Super Bowls in that time era, three victories and three.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like him too, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: because Seaford won the fourth on that first go around and they're talking about players. They're talking about personalities and Rich Eisen looks to this guy and he said, could any of these guys coach today? And he goes, yeah, one of them could. And goes, who's that? It was Joe Gibbs. He goes, really? He goes, Joe Gibbs can coach in any era. And that's what he said. And he goes, game never passed him by. Cause I'll tell you why. Every player he's ever had would go through a wall for him.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah.

Moore To Consider: And that's, then he said, he's going to relate to players regardless of his age, regardless of era, he's going to relate to players. goes, he's the most universal in that group of being able to coach across different dimensions. It was flattering to, and I was like, okay, I like it, you know, cause I liked your gifts, but I also, think, I think Walsh has come out. I wouldn't say terrible, but there's a little lot of stories about the mental games he played with Montana, like bringing.

Todd: Mm-hmm. It is. Yeah, I like it. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: when he brought Steve Young in, think a lot of it was just a mess with, Montana. And I've seen Montana talk with a great deal of hurt in his eyes about how he got run out of San Francisco. And I will tell the young people that watch this, I don't care what you think you've seen. I don't care what you think Brady is. And I love Brady. He's not Montana.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. They're not as good as Montana. No. No.

Moore To Consider: Well, it's just, it's just, he's not, I'm just, he, there's good players, but there's Joe cool. There was Joe cool. There was Joe Montana. And I just never saw anything like it. And Steve young was not Joe Montana and Steve young was great. He's a hall of Famer. He's great, but he's not Joe Montana.

Todd: Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Joe Montana. I good Lord that that that, then that Super Bowl against Cincinnati, the second one when he led them down the field to win that game. I mean, just, I mean, they were deep in their own territory. ⁓ Yeah. And he took them right down the field. mean, he was, he was great.

Moore To Consider: 89 yards is on 11. And, and two parts, two parts of that story that I find fascinating is Harris Barton tells the story that they get in the huddle and he goes, I'm screaming Harris Barton, offensive lineman, university of North Carolina. He's like, come on, let's get it together. We got to go, we got to, know, and he goes, look over at Montana and he's like staring in the back of the end zone and he's like, what's going on with this guy? And he goes, Hey guys, there's John, there's, there's John Candy, the actor. And then it was like, he got in the huddle is like formation play snap count break.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: And he's moving down the field. Then in the same drive where he's pointing out John Candy in the stands about halfway down the field, he's looking over at Bill Walsh and he keeps doing this and Walsh like, no, just take it down the field. Keep going. The reason he wanted to call time out was he was hyperventilating. So Joe Montana, that's cool. And it's looking in the stands and seeing movie stars five minutes later, can't breathe.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Keep going. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right, right.

Moore To Consider: And, and Walsh doesn't get it because Walsh is like, Joe Montana couldn't be hyperventilating. mean, but he keeps looking at him like, skip, I need a timeout and like, no, run the next play. got the clock, you're moving down the field. And I think eventually naturally they dropped the ball. Finally, something, I think something hit the ground and he got a chance to actually catch his breath.

Todd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he got his breath and got it going. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: But Todd, Joe Montana was human. Montana was literally, yeah, he was literally losing his breath. And I thought, it can't be Joe Montana. But when it came down to it, what did he do? He hits Taylor for the touchdown when everybody's looking rice and he sticks it ⁓ that pass. you watch it over and over, it's a perfect spiral. The ball spinning just perfect. And it's right there. And that's Joe Montana. He's he was the best ever. ⁓

Todd: He was human. That kid Joe Cool. Yeah. He stuck it right in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. He was awesome. I think he, yeah, you can make a case for it without a doubt. I mean, yeah, can't argue against it. I can't argue. And I mean, some of those teams back then too, I mean, the skins were awesome. You had those great Giants teams in there. mean, yeah, I mean, those Giants teams were tough.

Moore To Consider: I still got him best ever. Britney's the most successful. Yes. What you had to do to be there. What you had to do.

Todd: Dallas had some good years there in the eighties too. They weren't, they early eighties, they weren't exactly a slouch. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Hey. No, they weren't bad. And then a decline came, but no, they were still scuffling there for awhile. And I think the, the other thing that I think is unfair and I say it to people often is I really think the prototypical, if you sat down with God and said, create me a quarterback, it might be Elway. ⁓ size, strength, elusive, you know, throw it six miles run fast. And he took a bunch of really bad Denver teams, I think.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: To the super bowl to get his ass kiss kicked and wear it kissed, but kicked he's getting his ass kicked and wearing it. And I thought it's unfair. No way Denver gets there. And I just think the AFC was inferior because other than that 83 super bowl where the Raiders step up and beat the Redskins, you go what? 81 to 94, 95, 81, 49ers, 82 Redskins, 83 Raiders. Okay. Breaks the streak there, but then.

Todd: Yes. Yep. Mm-hmm. They were. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Uh, 84 San Francisco, 85 bears, 86 giants, 87 Redskins, 88, 89 49ers, 90 giants, 91 Redskins, 92 Cowboys, 93 Cowboys, 94 49ers, 95. Was that, that was Packers, wasn't it?

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. That was the Packers.

Moore To Consider: No, no, no, no Cowboys over Steelers. I'm sorry. Yeah. Cause Cowboys. So what I'm saying is between 81 and 95, you've got 14 wins by the NFC and the only team that NFC that lost was the Redskins. got their ass game, but all, and a lot of these games were blowout. then 96, I guess, was also that's right. It's another one because that's Packers. So 97 would have been Denver over the Packers.

Todd: The Steelers, yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that by right. Yeah. That's the

Moore To Consider: 98 was Denver over the Falcons. Right. I think we're right about that. But you, you got a 15, that's 15 years, man. 15 years of your life where it was NFC. It sounds, when we.

Todd: And then Ben Burbby over the Falcon. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I mean, if Dallas, mean, those 49ers Dallas, yeah, those could have gone either way. Uh, I mean, either the Packers were, I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, those Packers seems with farve and Reggie white. I mean, yeah. And I mean, and the Eagles weren't exactly, you know, they were pretty good in there too, with their defenses with.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ yes, sir. And then the, and then the Packers started to work their way into the, yeah. Yeah. It just seemed like football was so much better then.

Todd: Yeah, buddy Ryan. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Yeah, but when Reggie skipped town to go to the Packers, it was over.

Todd: They kind of started to fade and then Jerome Brown died.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, Jerome Brown was definitely a huge loss emotionally. And if I'm not mistaken ⁓ the body bag season, when the Redskins went in there and beat Buddy Ryan, I think that's when he lost his job, right? They fired him over that. Yeah. I think they fired him for losing to Washington. ⁓

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, that was... I think that's when they fired them. Yeah. Yeah. No, those were great times, great games. And, you know, I, I love it, but I'll love it more if our team plays better. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Yeah, I think something about the mechanics of it though, we're overexposed. can see.

Todd: Yeah, it's just... gotta bag the Thursday night games, ⁓ think. ⁓

Moore To Consider: Well, what I mean, I mean, overexposed, there was a rhythm to, then that's part of it. Yeah. think you're right. mean, the bag, you know, and going to Europe and all the rest, I'm not a fan of, but what I mean is And you were an eighties person, nineties person, you knew the rhythm of it all. knew, yeah, watch some college football on Saturday. He's going to go in the draft next year, Sunday. ⁓ You you're going to get NFL today. You're going to get the pregame type of thing.

Todd: Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: You're going to see the game. If you're us, you turn Sonny, Frank and Sam on and, by the way, I don't know if I told you this. I don't know if I showed you this one yet or not. I this ⁓ on one of these balls. I found this ⁓ on with Sonny Juergensen on it. And right around the time he passed.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be there.

Moore To Consider: I kept looking at what other signatures that, and then it dawned on me. I went and looked up a Frank Herzog signature. That's what it is. So this is a Superbowl 26 ball. It says Washington Buffalo, Minneapolis, Minnesota, January 26th, 1992 on it. Right. And I'm thinking, and I mentioned this on the Sonny Juergensen show I did about his passing. I'm wondering if they were sitting in the booth and some guy like, Sonny.

Todd: I'll be damned. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: Frank, we got about 30 balls here. We need to have you sign or something and sign a few. And then it ended up coming to me this way. Now the signature of course not on it's Sam Huff. So, you know, maybe Sam signed some other ones, but the more I looked at that F and then I went and looked on YouTube. I'm not on YouTube on, um, I looked on the internet generally. What is Frank Herzog's signature? I'm like, son of a bitch. That's it.

Todd: That's fine. Find a few of them, yeah. Right. Right.

Moore To Consider: Now it's faint. It's very faint, but yeah, I got a ball with Frank Herzog and Sonny Jurgensen on it. Yeah. It means a lot to me. Yeah. Because I loved Frank. I loved Frank Herzog. So.

Todd: I'll be back. Yeah. That's great. That's great. That's how I'm sure hell yeah does I love it. ⁓ I love damn and he got screwed. I mean

Moore To Consider: He did. That's another, yeah, that's a, yeah. Larry Michael was okay. I was all right with, I wasn't okay with what happened. Yeah. I just didn't like the way it happened.

Todd: I didn't mind Larry, but no, no, I didn't mind. And he was nice to us when the skins were in town for a train of camp. Yeah, I had no problem.

Moore To Consider: Yeah. The times I was around Larry Michael. Yeah. Great guy. Great guy. But Frank Herzog was an, oh, there were people in the parking lot when I came out the next year, they're raising hell. Like they're writing out there about Frank Herzog going back to the booth because that was an institution from 91 through the 2004 season. I'm sorry, from 81, 81 through 2004. And I say, I wonder about other fans. Like they might had a guy, you know, in Denver, they might had a guy with Miami. They might have.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: Sim, there probably are similar experiences people have in different cities, but on one of the shows I was like, I don't know who else does this. said, but if you were the fan, I was. You turned down the TV and you turned on the radio and then you tried to sync them up. I literally went through having my radio feed go into my VCR and I would record the games every week with Sonny, Frank and Sam calling the game and I'd sync them up.

Todd: Yeah, I love this, Donnie. Yeah. Bye-bye. Yeah? Wow.

Moore To Consider: So I was recording, I was recording, I recorded all the games. I've got, I got tons of old VHS tapes of games from the eighties. But when I, when I recorded them, I recorded Frank, Sonny, Frank and Sam, because they had the radio feed come in. There was a way to split it that you got the picture in the VHS recorder, but you got the sound from a different source. I figured all this stuff out. So I have Sonny, Frank and Sam calling games. And, ⁓ that I have on tape and that's how you listen to the game.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amen. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah, They were the best.

Moore To Consider: That's how, if you were a Redskins fan and I loved Pat Summerall and I loved Tommy Brookshire and then John Madden, but I didn't love him as much as Sonny Frankinson. Sonny Jurgensen, Sonny and Sam together in the same booth was a treasure. And last thing I say, and we'll close up the one of the neatest things I talked about the other day after Sonny's death was the fact that it came full circle. He was actually doing games with Chris Cooley in the end.

Todd: Yeah. Donnie, Donnie, Sam and Frank. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, wow. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: A man that lived to be 91 who I'm thinking Sean Taylor was born in 83. I'm thinking that Chris Cooley was also drafted in 04, was probably about the same time range. So Juergensen's been out of the game a decade, out of the game a decade when Chris Cooley was born. And he was a fan of Chris Cooley in 04, very much so.

Todd: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Damn. Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: And then eventually Cooley, who's a super smart guy, you know, was in the booth with Sonny. And I thought that was a beautiful thing. Cause that's a, it's a grandfatherly, grandson type of environment with the two of them together. That was beautiful. That was beautiful. Yeah. And that's part of all of my myths. I don't, and that's what I'm saying. I don't think it can be recaptured. think so much of the, I think even if you bring back some of the imagery, there's, think Daniel Snyder ruined it all. Just bottom line.

Todd: Yeah. was great. ⁓ were good times there. ⁓ He did. He just destroyed him. He destroyed him. Yeah. He, I hope he's miserable over in ⁓ on his boat. I he ruined him. I mean, he just, and it didn't matter what you, I mean, you could have had Tom Brady and Belichick, but this guy's their owner. This is what you're going to have. And it's he ruined him. He ruined them. And thank God he's gone.

Moore To Consider: He ruined it all. destroyed the whole thing. Yeah.

Todd: That's all I can say.

Moore To Consider: Todd, look brother, enjoyed having you on, so people.

Todd: Yeah, thanks. This is great. Let's do it again.

Moore To Consider: We will do it again. We're going to continue to do this risk and talk type of thing. So those of you who have made it here to the end that are listening, please like, subscribe, and share with other people and please put in the comments, your 10 risk and tell us we're crazy. We've kind of given them who we think our 10 are. Tell us we're crazy. Tell us 10, tell us some that we missed and things like that. think the Darrell green, the Sammy ball, some of those have to be there, but you tell us what you think.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. righty, let's do it again.

Moore To Consider: Todd, thank you so much for coming on, All right. Talk to you all soon. This has been More To Consider.

Todd: Okay.