The 757 Baseball Pipeline: Player Development, Parents & the Path to the Pros

speaker-0: they've hurt baseball more than helped, I think, because I I think they think they know more than they do. And yeah, they're like Josh said, there's a lot of division one kids in in Hampton Roads who aren't playing Division One baseball. But at some point, dude, I mean, I sat on the other side of those parent meetings for a long time. Okay. And you do not want to coach a kid whose parents, e if the radar starts going up that these guys that the parents are going to be nightmares, we're just not going to recruit you.

speaker-2: Hot stove conversations about baseball, history, football, and current events that may leave you saying, There's more to consider. Now here's your host, Jack Moore.

speaker-1: Jack Moore here. More to consider. Baseball again. And 757. The greatest athletes in the history of America have come out of the area code 757, except for my boy up here, Secretariat, born 11 miles from where I grew up. You all know the story, but he was an 804 guy, but he's still the greatest. Well, it was 703 back then, but he's the greatest athlete in Virginia history. I have Chris Dodalo. I have Josh Root. These are two young men, everybody's younger than me. These are two young men that mean the world to me. Of course, Josh is up here. That's his big league photograph when he pitched for the Rangers. ⁓ I've known both of these guys probably from about the same year, only Chris was a little bit ad ⁓ ahead of of Josh in age. He was ⁓ getting ready to start into Pro Bowl when we got to know each other well. And Josh was 11 when I first started working with him. So we have a history in the 757. We all three have a history. There is A family atmosphere that's unbelievable. I did a show a few months ago. I had on Gary Lavelle, 13 years in the big leagues, two-time All-Star, grew up in Pennsylvania, ends up in Virginia Beach. And he and Towny Townsend, and I say this all the time: the two of them had everything to do with how we ended up with so much talent coming out of the area. Towney passed away several years ago. We all loved him. You know, we try to honor him every time we talk about baseball because he made a great deal of difference in our area. He affected everybody in the area. So We have all these guys start to come out of the area. Starts kind of in the early to mid nineties. They all guys start to play in travel leagues together and we start to see as we enter the two thousands a bunch of kids getting drafted and they end up on T V and I'm really happy that all that happened 'cause I got to see it. I got to see it happen. Okay. Chris, where'd you grow up? Start with you. Where'd you grow up?

speaker-0: Grew up in Norfolk in Larchmont. Yeah.

speaker-1: Yep. Kind of over there by old Dominion.

speaker-0: Right on ODU's campus. My dad was an ODU professor for forty-some years, and my mom taught first grade at Larchmont Elementary School. So I was

speaker-1: All right, and what was your base I I know exactly that area, so the people know is this you know kinda off Hampton Boulevard there. So what was what was your baseball journey?

speaker-0: You know, so I was a Norfolk Academy guy for twelve years and I really think my baseball journey started with with ODU baseball when Mark Newman arrived at Old Dominion. And and I remember as a you know, probably nine, ten years old, you know, even before Newman, I I would walk over to Larksmont Elementary School and watch ODU play baseball on an all skin infield. It was awful. I mean, it was literally a city park, you know. And Newman's first two, they played there and and when they built the bud, that was really when I kind of got you know, went head first into baseball and started going to all those camps and going to the games and you know, watching those guys play and learning baseball from over there and and that was you know, that was a really a big part of my beginning baseball journey was Mark Newman ODU baseball and ⁓ you know Pat Rossler and you know those guys were early on in that early eighties ⁓ time frame. So that really kind of started. And it was my backyard. Like I literally would rot would ride my bike. I'd ride my bike over there after school and watch ⁓ practice and go to the games and yeah. I was all in.

speaker-1: And so so a little bit of trivia for the listeners here. Bud Matheny was the coach that the stadium was named after, and is when Mark came there. Mark went on to have quite a career as a front office assistant general manager with the New York Yankees for a number. When the Yankees were good, Mark was there. So Mark Newman's very educated guy. I think he had a law degree, very, very bright guy. Came to Old Dominion, turned the program around, had a fifty plus win season, and they built the new stadium. And if I'm not mistaken, I think you can win this in a bar bet. If I'm not mistaken. The last man in history for the New York Yankees to wear number three was Bud Matheny. Yeah. Even though Ruth's number is eventually retired, but they slipped number three to Matheny. And I think the Yankees played him during one of the war years in the World Series. He played in that World Series for the Yankees during the war and he he wore number three. And then after that when they retired ⁓ Ruth's number, nobody ever wore number three again. But I think you can win a bar bet on that that Bud Matheny was the last man for the New York Yankees to wear number three.

speaker-0: But Lassane. Yeah, you may be right. But that ⁓ was a great time growing up, but you know just a great time for baseball in this area. You could see it explode, you know, and a lot of it had to do with the the ODU camps in the summer. I mean, no one had ever had ever had camps like that.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. I think so too.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-1: You're right. That's where I got my start as far as the coaching and meeting a lot of people was I walked over to Mark one time. I was coaching at Chow Wan when it was a junior college and I Hey, can I come come on in, come work the camps. I met Jimmy Farr there. Jim Bagnell was coaching there at the time and ⁓ they were really, really good going into that late eighties. So where do you go to college from there?

speaker-0: So I go to VCU to play for Go Coach Guzzo and Coach Keys. And I'm there for a few years and I get hurt and I end up going to Virginia Wesleyan for my last couple. Yeah, playing for Nick for my last couple of years. And I get lucky and I get signed by ⁓ a Giants scout named Mike Toomey. And you know him well. Everybody knows Mike Toomey. So Toomey ⁓ Toomy signed me, you know, I knocked around with the Giants for a little bit and

speaker-1: Play free. I know.

speaker-0: And then after that I got into coaching, but it was ⁓ yeah, a little bit of being in the right place at the right time. But I always felt like I had great coaches. ⁓ in high in high school, my coach was Vince Zebro. And Zebro had played for Bud Matheene at ODU, right? And then you have Coach Guza, who's a legend. You got Coach Keys. I even played for Billy Swoper all along the way. Billy are old.

speaker-1: You know.

speaker-0: These are old Hampton Roads guys that really kinda started, in my opinion, you know, really kind of jump started baseball in the seven five seven.

speaker-1: No question. No question. Like as I mentioned earlier, Gary and Towney having that building, but you're right. Some of the other names. Tony passed away was it been three years ago now and we all loved him. He he was a mentor to me and Paul passed away in twenty twelve, I remember, 'cause we were born the same year and he's he's been gone to of course Billy's still scouting. So, you know, it's but again, what we're all kind of saying to the listeners that some of the listeners are gonna know this area, but for those that don't, I came here in ninety three. ⁓ and when I came here, I went right into Grand Slam with Jim and Prudy Ramsey, the the Grand Slam USA. And at that particular building, you know, I saw a young David Wright, Mark Reynolds, where I met Kadire, and Josh Roop. So mom and dad, ⁓ you know, Roger and Betty bring in Josh at about eleven, getting ready to push twelve, and ⁓ I famously, as far as the family thing goes, told dad at thirteen, I'm like, You better hold on to your socks. Your kid's gonna pitch in the big leagues. And he's like, What are you talking about? I said, Your I said, your kid's a freak. And he's like, What? What? So I think that kind of put some tension on Josh there. But then Gary Lavelle, a year later, when he's fourteen, says the same thing. Hey, Roger, your kid's gonna pitch in the big leagues. So love both of you. again, I'm I'm You know, Chris, when I used to hit you ground balls when you were home during during the off season and we did some stuff over at Wesleyan. And Josh and I started at that at eleven and you know, we've been together ever since and it is a very neat community of people. So Josh, where did this arm come from? Tell us your journey.

speaker-2: ⁓ my journey. I don't know. ⁓ you know, started playing baseball like most everybody when you're, you know, T ball or whatever and grew up in playing in Deep Creek baseball. where my grandfather was like the I guess you would call it the commissioner. And then he turned it over to my uncle and my daddy involved and all that and grew up doing that and then ⁓ I guess when I was Maybe thirteen? Twelve, thirteen, my dad formed started the Knights travel team. And that was, you know, back when you they were actually travel teams because you to travel right to play anybody. I think there was three teams in our area. ⁓ like the Blasters, the Knights, ⁓ I wanna say the drillers were around

speaker-1: I think the drillers did that early too. Yeah, I think you're right. I think they did call the drillers.

speaker-2: one other team I think maybe but ⁓ did that and you know played there with some with a lot of good guys and and then went to GCA as a freshman and was ⁓ with Coach Lavelle for four years in high school and learned a a lot between him and you ⁓ in helping me kind of I guess you could say evolve a little bit. ⁓ and then From there, ⁓ went to Liberty for one year, had some little hiccups there, being a a dumb seventeen year old, going to college, not really going to class, ⁓ not doing my part, and I believe we I think I had a one point four GPA after the first year. So not great. ⁓ but actually and I don't know, you can never say what something would have been or wouldn't have been, but I believe it was a conversation we had. ⁓ my mom, my dad or probably my dad, me, you, and you were kinda like, Hey, you don't like school? Cool. You're you're doing well baseball wise.

speaker-1: I'll tell you exactly exactly where it was. We were in Hampton, Virginia. We were at War Memorial, and you were pitching for the pilots in the summer. And Betty, and I gotta tell you, folks, again, he is family, his his mom and dad, we're all family. It's it's so so we're sitting there at the game and Josh is pitching, and Betty's like, I think he'd just like to go on into Pro Ball. I'm like, Okay, all right, we're gonna have to do a little JUCO work here. It's like, what do you mean? I said, Well, if he transfers to a junior college, he can get drafted next spring. Okay. And then she goes, You got any thoughts? I said, Yeah, Russ Frazier, Hall of Fame coach at Lewisburg. Now Billy Godwin is now the head coach at Lewisburg and Russ was there from fifty-nine to ninety-nine. I think he was there like forty years. So I call Russ and I said, I got a kid. He bumps ninety five. He goes, Okay, okay, all right, right. What what do we do? I said, Okay, we'll take care of this. We'll you know, we'll get him there. And ⁓ I know you carried your glove and spikes to throw, and Billy Godwin was like, Sorry, I already know you you're you're the guy we think you are. So you go there and you go in the third round. And we go through that. You go you guys go to the college World Series that year, the JUCOS. And I think that was like number nine for the team for the team, nine, ten, something like that for the history of the school. And that's a thing you had to kind of be on the East Coast to know, because you know, I I've been around some places and I'll say Lewisburg College. Where is that? I Well, they got a board there. You know it. They got a board there. There's like a hundred and fifty names on it. And that's all the guys that played Pro Bowl. And on one side of it's about another thirty plus names, and that's the guys that have been to the big leagues. And I'll tell them that and they'll go, What? From that I'm like, Yeah, it's a junior college, it's near Raleigh, North Carolina, and it has a tradition. It has a great tradition. It's been a lot of guys that had success that played there. And ⁓ yeah. But and you know, some people you say, ⁓ Lewisburg, okay. They'd know that, but you know, some regions of the country don't know it as much, but definitely has a lot of history there. And when you go in the third round, you get drafted by the White Sox. Mm-hmm. And ⁓ For people that kind of wonder about the whole round situation, I saw this a few years ago and it's still pretty much the same. About 50% of first rounders make it to the big leagues. And people will probably be like, ⁓ that's crazy. Yeah, it's about 50% make it to the big leagues from the first round. But any one time you look at a major league game, you can guarantee about 50% of the players were drafted in the first four rounds. Now there are free agent signs. You know, back when it was 62 rounds, you know, famously Mike Piazza was the guy that was a very late pick. You know, you get a guy. Botts that you play with was Texas was one of the latest picks ever to make it. He was like forty eighth round. Yeah, he was the later pick. ⁓ was it Jason Botts, outfielder? Switch. Yeah, big outfield big tall kit. Yeah.

speaker-2: Think he was, yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, I got I played with I played with a kid I played with a kid named Marvin Bernard, ended up with the big league in the big leagues with the Giants, and he was ⁓ Lewis and Clark State. I think he was like a fifty first rounder. He played with big league for like four or five years.

speaker-1: Good for him. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's the other thing is old man get off my lawn. I try to tell young kids all the time. I'm like, guys, I've seen players with more can't miss talent not make it and some guys that had no business in pro ball make it. And they're ⁓ sure right. And I'm like, No, actually I'm I can tell you there's some guys because I said, Well, look at it this way, who who are you gonna be your ⁓ managers in the minors? A lot of times gonna be the guy that got the cup of coffee, a lot of triple A time, maybe got to the big leagues for a while. If you're a first rounder and you're coming in like, you know, certain things don't stink, they don't like you. They don't like you if you come in with an entourage and all the rest and you sign for seventy two million dollars. And he's gonna want he's gonna be the one that writes reports. So if there's a guy that shows up every day and does his work and does it right, he's gonna get better reports for it. And he might like you know, I like that guy that went the tenth round that works his ass off. So you guys have experienced that. You've seen that, you've seen some guys kind of big league their way out of the big leagues because they don't They don't act right. So

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-1: So, Josh, you go third round. I take you out to work with Tom House. ⁓ shout out to Tom House on this one, because I I told him this story this last summer when I did a show with him. I'll never for I'll never forget. I gotta say this, and I know I've probably said this to you a million times. We go out there, Aaron Harang's the first guy he plays catch with that just got into the big leagues. Mark Pryor's out there. Remember one year Rob Nyn came out there after he'd pitched into the World Series. So we have all these guys, you know, I'm looking around, I'm like, ⁓ those those are a bunch of big leaguers. And I'll watch Josh throw. as compared to them. And I'm like, ⁓ shit, like, he's one of them. So Tom comes over to me and he says, Do you know what the he is? And I was like, Tom, I know he's pretty good. And he goes, Jack, he's in the big leagues in two years. And you were in the big leagues two years later. Exactly like he said. So then I was like, okay. You know, he's gonna be one of those guys. So we had a lot of fun with Tom. And you know, looking back and when we were out there this year and saw the la couple years ago and saw Rocker, I think when you look back you recognize a lot of what you get from Tom is the stories and you start to see what the whole big picture is. Not s the the mechanics and all the other kind of stuff, sure. It makes a difference. But you guys know from playing, a lot of it is mindset, figuring things out, having to go through some painful stories or lessons, but it's it's who kind of figures it out. So You do get to the big league September twenty or September sixteenth, two thousand five. I'm in Arlington Ta and I gotta say this. I had dreamt of this. I'm gonna Josh pitch in the big leagues. I'm in the front row, first pitch, and it's ninety-nine degrees, folks. It's September sixteenth and it's ninety-nine first pitch at seven fifteen. So that I think that ⁓ ticket I have is still up there. You get to the big leagues, you pitch with the Rangers, you pitch with the Royals, and you pitch with the Orioles. And it was a blast to see you in, you know, on TV or at live games and things like that. ⁓ what do you I'm gonna put you on the spot with all these kind of questions, but what do you think now? I mean, there's only 25,000 people in the history of the world that played in the big leagues. You're one of them, you know. I mentioned that with Kadir. And Kadir said he was like actually 18,000 when they list win guys. Yeah, he actually came up, he was number 18,000 exactly. So And then I'll tell you this real quick. I think you probably looked at these two. I I got Kadir, what, fifteen, sixteen years in the big leagues, and Gary thirteen. And I was saying to them, I said, you know what? I've always thought about like what percent of guys ever played 10 years or more. And Michael laughs and said, funny you should say that. Because I was on a committee towards the end of my career and they researched it. And in the year twenty ten, twenty twelve, somewhere in that range, there'd only been seventeen hundred guys, I think, in history that had played ten or more years.

speaker-0: It's crazy.

speaker-1: Yeah. Cause what you see is a lot of guys like Moonlight Graham. I mentioned this in the first show, but Moonlight Graham from ⁓ from ⁓ Field of Dreams, that was based on a true story. That happened a lot. There were guys that got called up in September, they're like, Hey, go play in the outfield for three outs and come on back in. Well, they were in the register. They played in the big leagues. Right. That might be the only appearance they ever had, but they did get there. So look at some of the question I have for you, Josh. not so much what's your proudest moment at all, but what do you think you got from professional baseball and getting a chance to play in the big leagues more than anything else? What what means the most to you today?

speaker-2: ⁓ I think just really the the relationships that you make with you know not only you know guys in similar situations that may only had a few years in the big leagues, but also like superstar guys. I mean there's I was I was kind of I guess fortunate and not fortunate in some ways to come when I first got caught up, I was, you know, what was I twenty?

speaker-1: You just turned twenty three.

speaker-2: Just turned twenty three, yeah, like a month before. But that Texas team was so old. I mean, you had Kenny Rogers, ⁓ Rod Barajas caught, Tashera was at first, and he wasn't older at that at that time. Alfonso Soriano at second, Michael Young at short, Hank Blaylock at third, David in left, ⁓ Gary

speaker-1: Yes it was. Millwood was Millwood with you that year?

speaker-2: Millwood was there. ⁓ Who were the starters that year? It was Millwood, Kenny Rogers. ⁓ shoot. And then you have, you know, Orl Herschaiser's my freaking pitching coach. ⁓ Andy Hawkins, who pitched for the Yankees for a long time, was my bullpen coach. ⁓ you know, I so I learned Phil Nevin was there, who we had some ⁓ you know, he was you know, said I talked too much for a rookie, which I did. ⁓ and we had some some things there, but it was I learned very quick, you know, how to act and what not to do. But also like, you know, those guys like I mean it was the other day I was watching something on T V and it was somewhere and I text Michael Young, like some, you know, whatever, meme or something like that, and within two minutes he responds. You know, I I mean I was so fortunate to play with with all kinds of guys, but even the the superstar guys were were for the most part amazing guys. Like I mean you know, I still talk to to a lot of those guys from Michael Young to Jamie Wright to Chris Davis to Ian Kinsler to ⁓ you know, a lot of those guys. And I think that was the biggest thing that I I couldn't trade that for anything. It's just all those guys I got to be around and learn from. ⁓ you know, learn good things and learn what also what not to do. You know, I it was, you know, I mean Milton Bradley was there. You know, who who off the field was, you know, the quiet, didn't talk a lot, you know, real reserve, but then you put him between the lines, you know, and everybody remembers how how he was, which hey, he was a great teammate. Like he wanted to win more than anybody. Like I love being around him and he for some reason talked to me and like we took me out. ⁓ You know, Millwood the same way. I still talk to Millie a lot. You know, he would take me out, you know, after games and and sit and talk to me some and like I think that's for me that's the bit that's something you can't you can't get that anywhere else. Like you can't replace that you know, as opposed to ⁓ I went to this ballpark or I went here. It doesn't matter. Like being able to be in the trenches with those guys and and have them a called as friends is is amazing. I I I can still can't believe that I can, you know Text somebody like that and they'll text me back.

speaker-1: Yeah. Dodge what about you? Now again, you go from college baseball to into professional baseball and back to coaching at the college level. What what about y what means most to you about your professional experience?

speaker-0: That's a great question. I mean, I think early on I I knew I always wanted to coach and and I and I wanted to be a college coach. I mean, even even in high school, right? I wanted to be a college baseball coach. And so along the way when I was playing, I was I was, you know, I was constantly learning and and trying to think how is this gonna help me as a coach, you know, as an instructor and you know, evaluator, whatever. To me, the biggest thing I think I probably learned in professional baseball, you know, outside of how to act and things like that, but ⁓ you know, college baseball has a tendency to make the game really complicated. Okay. And and what I found in professional baseball was that it's really not that complicated. Okay. And y you know, it's it's fast and there's a lot of talent and you know, things happen at a quicker pace and you know, obviously balls are hit harder and thrown harder and all that stuff. But the game really isn't that complicated. And and so to me, I think, you know, just kind of understanding that, sometimes less is more. And and I think that's really kind of helped me in coaching, right? And and you know, and I know the game is different now with all of the analysts and the spin rates and all that stuff, and it's gotten more complicated than it was, you know, the way I learned it. Okay. But ⁓ You know, I think I learned that there's a there's a lot of different ways to field a ground ball. There's a lot of different ways to swing the bat. There's a lot of different arm slots, you know? And ⁓ there's no cookie cutter approach to anything. And ⁓ you know, I so to me that was I think really a a big takeaway was this the game I mean it's hard, right? Not saying it's an easy game by any means, but the complex the complexity of the game sometimes isn't as complex as people make it out to be. You know, and that's one thing that I try to get my guys who I've been coaching since college, you know, since I first started coaching. I mean, I coached in college for fifteen years and this year is gonna be my twelfth or thirteenth year coaching in high school. And you know, trying to get guys, see, man, you're making it way too difficult. Okay. You're making it too hard. So

speaker-1: Wait, I was gonna say this is a strange comparison, but I thought the same thing. Like I I saw the paper chase and then I went to law school and the old Socratic method just still it still exists, but but you find in a law school experiences the law professors there used to be a time three people got in, one got out, so they would weed people out and it was whether you could think like a lawyer. So I'm I use this strange example. I listened to some bar review tapes before I took the bar, and there was a guy who was a Graduate of Yale Law School, and he goes, Hey, your professors have been trying to make this seem mystical, like only special people can learn it. Here's the deal. They keep asking you what's the issue in this case. If it's civil, somebody wants money from somebody and the other person doesn't want to pay it. If it's criminal, they want somebody to go to jail, and that person doesn't want to go to jail. Figure out why, and you got the issue. And I say that to say I think that a lot of times coaches complicate things because they don't know what else to do. Like I gotta have a practice. And I see the people that just organize practice down to you know every minute, you know, that that they get scripted and all the rest. I'm like the game doesn't really play out that way. It doesn't make me right. Right. But I tell you something I never forgot. When I was doing the law thing and I was helping my friend do play representation, when Josh was was being scouted, there was an old gentleman about six six, always had a chew in, he pitched in the big leagues, told me Ted Williams stories. He pitched for the Red Sox. And he said, you know, Jack, you what's wrong with the kids and this? So he goes, they don't play sandlot. And I went, interesting. And he goes, Yeah, everything's organized. He goes, Did you ever play in the neighborhood with a bunch of kids? And I go, sure. And he goes, Who made the rules? I said, Either the kid that brought the ball could kick everybody else's ass, right? And he goes, How many parents there? I'm like, none. How many adults? None. Who made the rules? Again, survival of the fittest, and you tried to get along. He said, Right, you learn to play baseball. Did you watch the game of the week? Yep. Tony Kubak and Joe Garaggiola, you listen to those people. We learned the game that way and we had to play with each other. Right. Now the kids are being told how special. It's not anybody's fault in particular, but it's always something to do with money. But we have the travel ball environment. And I'm shocked. Josh and I coached together this summer. Again, Josh, love you, man. We had one of the best times, but we are shocked at what kids don't know. We got two balls dribbling up the middle this summer and the shortstop's playing over in short left field. And it's, you know, runner on first and he's in short left field and the ball's going up the middle. And I'm like, have you thought about playing? You know, we call him, I'm You thought about playing double play depth there? And it's like, What's that? Yeah. Am I wrong, Josh? You know. And then when we say that and go ahead.

speaker-0: They don't know.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: Well, you know what it is, Jack. I mean, these kids, my fiance has two boys, twelve and eleven. Okay. All they do is watch highlights on YouTube. They watch a highlight of the game, they watch a highlight of the Yankees game. So they think the game is about home runs and great plays, and then if Anthony Volpe makes an error, they think he sucks, right? And that's all they see are the highlights poor guy.

speaker-1: Yes. Poor guy.

speaker-0: They don't understand, you know, they don't understand the game, right? They don't understand moving runners and it n there's never gonna be highlights of a guy advancing in the ball in the dirt. Okay. There's there they're just not gonna get there's never gonna be highlights of of the guy just base it with a runner at second. He just picks it up and plops it into second base because they know they don't have a chance at the guy at home and they're just trying to keep the you know keep a force in order. Like that doesn't make the highlight real. And the kids don't understand.

speaker-1: That's exactly right.

speaker-0: They don't get

speaker-2: Only one of those made the highlight real and that was when Jeter did it for his whatever seven millionth hit or whatever it was.

speaker-1: Yeah, th there i there is all that, but I think that that thing too that that guy was saying was also true. And I said, you know, as a lawyer, I can tell you a lot of it is the vacant lot, you know, everybody is like you hear the same story, everybody says all the time there's lots everywhere, kids well kids can't enter a b ⁓ a gate or through a fence to go play catch or or play because if somebody gets hurt, somebody gets sued. So the the vacant lot thing is kind of it's kind of passed. But you it's like Tom says too, kids pitch too much and throw too little. They only throw when they're with their instructor. You know, they that's that's the only time it's going. But again, they've also lost that way to learn just how to play together. And and so that gentleman asked me, he said, What was your first experience with a coach in organized baseball? 10, whatever, little league. What did you think? I said, He's kind of the guy that wrote the lineup. I mean, I really that's all I thought of him is like we didn't get a lot of instruction. And again, to to kind of dump on where I think a lot of baseball programs now is, and I heard a college coach tell this. He goes, you know, I started to realize one day I was what he goes, we drill really well. We don't play baseball well at all. We we drill great. Like, you know, we know every drill there is and we can go through the drills, but it's like I'm watching us in the game. And sometimes the drills don't perfectly align with the shit that just happens on the field. And for right or wrong, that was one of the things I used to like try to throw live BP a lot. And we would scrimmage off of it. I'd I'd get behind an L screen and just toss, play, keep moving. And then when the guy threw the wrong base, I'm like, Okay, teaching moment, stop the pro why did you throw here? Why did you not go to this guy? Why did you take that base? Well you know, whatever. And you know, you know that both of you know that from playing. You make the proper mistake, you tend to not make that mistake again. Or it's in your mind the rest of your life, but you have to live through the pain of the mistake. And I don't think you get that from drills. I just don't

speaker-0: And I yeah, I remember it w one year it spring training in a split squad game. This was back now when the Giants their infield was Will Clark, Robbie Thompson, Royce Clayton, Matt Williams, Kurt Manwaring behind the plate. Okay. And all and all those guys had come up in the Giants system. So there was a little bit of a little bit of a brotherhood. You got lucky to go to a split squad game and they're hey, where were you last year? I was like in Clinton, Iowa. They're I remember Clinton, Iowa, right? And I asked Rob ⁓ I asked Robbie Thompson one night, I said, Hey man, I was like, What makes you a good major league baseball player? And he was like, It's not that I'm better than other guys. He says, but what I'm really good at, and I'll never forget this. He says, What I'm really good at is when the ball is put in play, I know where everybody's supposed to be on the field. Okay. There you go. I am directing traffic, and if someone's in the wrong spot, I'm moving them there. He goes, That is value added to me as a major league baseball player. And I was like, That's awesome. Like I've always remembered that. And I tell even my thirteen year old blaster team I was like If y you should know where everybody's supposed to be when the ball's hit. And if you see someone going to the wrong spot, you're directing traffic, you know? And that stuck with me for thirty years. That one statement.

speaker-1: Josh, I gotta ask you this because when I was at that first game, I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit for the people that watched this, but I don't think you'd mind saying the back of me on this. I go see you play in 05. And I remember talking to you a few seasons later, and I'm like, Who's your best second baseman? And you were like, Michael Young, who's your best shortstop, Michael Young? Who's your best third baseman, Michael Young? Wherever they put Michael Young, and I gotta tell you, folks, he became like one of my favorite players of all time because I watched him several times. I got to see Josh. He was like a 200 hit a year guy, hit 300-ish, makes some All-Star games. I know that people wouldn't consider him a Hall of Famer, but man, if you saw him play, he was one of the greatest baseball players I ever saw. There was never a raw movement, never a raw in place, hit behind the runner, you name it, hit with some power. You played with him, and I think you told me the first time. that you get there and you're seeing your jersey hanging, he comes right to you and says, I'm there for ya. I'm brother Michael, right? So so tell us some great stories about Michael Young as a player because I just thought he was wonderful to watch.

speaker-2: He was. I mean from you know, from the time I showed up, you know, being nobody and you know, he always, you know, talked to me and and and even like little things, like just, you know, acknowledging me when I come in the clubhouse, you know, every day. Like you I there were you know, not mentioning any names. You may know some of who I'm talking about, but sometimes, you know, you'd play with guys even when I was a rookie and and they'll even my second year or whatever and and they'll walk right by you and and act like you don't exist. ⁓ right. There was only a a a very few of those. I was very fortunate to play with a lot of great guys, but Michael Young was first of all, he was the best teammate, probably I I I don't know. He i if you want to model yourself after somebody in every facet of life, Michael Young is w the bet like he's he's on the Mount Rushmore for sure. But I mean like you said he he he

speaker-1: I agree.

speaker-2: And he was one of the few guys really that you see in the big leagues that still has that mentality of of whatever the team needs, I wanna go do that. You know, he's playing shortstop. You know, he's the shortstop, whatever. Elvis Andrews comes up and they move, you know, move 'cause he was a second baseman when A Rod was there. So he moved to short, did a great job, was no reason for him to move. A few little while later, Andrews comes up and they're like, Hey

speaker-1: That's right.

speaker-2: you know, would you mind moving to third? Whatever. Sure thing. There was no, you know, crazy thing in the in the media where he's holding out. Whatever. He just says, yes, sir, and goes about his business. And ⁓ he just he just showed up every day and did his job and always, you know, I feel like he never lost that that kid like happy to be here. Like I still, you know, I feel like even when he was

speaker-1: No, exactly.

speaker-2: fifteen years in the big leagues, he pr he still looked in the mirror like, I can't believe that I'm s I'm able to do this. He never lost that, you know, I don't know what the proper term is, but he just he did everything right. And and when some when, you know, no matter, you know, certain guys you played with, I was fortunate to play with there, you know, Tashera, Soriano, Vlad was there, you know, Nelson Cruz, Josh Hamilton,

speaker-1: Josh Hamilton's the greatest yeah, I was gonna get to that at some folks, Josh Hamilton's the greatest player I ever saw. As far as physical talent, I never saw a human being close to him. Go ahead.

speaker-2: Out of all those guys and nothing against them, if you if a spot came up and you needed something to be done, don't care what it was, Slick, as we called him, that was his nickname, Slick, Slick was the dude you wanted there. Like it was it was just that was his nickname, Slick.

speaker-1: Slick with Michael Young. Got it. Got it. Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-2: Slick was your gut.

speaker-1: Does who was your guy that you you saw? You do you mentioned Robbie Thompson, great that's a great one to to think about is what kind of career he had. What other guys did you see that you're like, damn, they really do it right? What other guys did you see playing professionally?

speaker-0: Yeah, you know, so two of my really good buddies that I played with for a few years, ⁓ Billy Miller and ⁓ and Doug Mirabelli both ended up with Boston on those World Series teams. And I would have to say Billy was probably one of those guys, you know, very unassuming. You know, you look at him and he's kinda you know, he just he doesn't he d his actions weren't great in the field, had a little hitch in his throwing, but man, I tell you what, when the lights turned on that kid could play baseball. And And you know, he had a such a great eye at the plate and and you know, drew a lot of walks and was constantly on base and you know, could hit from both sides of the plate. And I don't know, Josh, if you were in Texas that year, it might have been the year after when he hit two grand slams from both sides of the plate in one game. It was down in Arlington. It might have been it might have been you know, more like ⁓ three, ⁓ four, something like that. But it's ⁓ he's the only player it's ever done, right? ⁓ two grand slams from both sides of the plate and he also hit a third home run in that game. But he w Damn and he's a he's just he's a great guy. You know, he's a great guy. And and so he was probably, you know, the one guy that I would say he didn't he wasn't a showcase guy. He didn't blow you away with you know, he's an average runner, six nine, maybe seven at best. ⁓ if you watch him take round balls and you know, you're like, Okay, he's just like everybody else, but when the lights turned on, man, he could play some baseball. He could play some baseball. You know.

speaker-1: And those guys still get to play.

speaker-0: a lot more a lot more talented players that I saw, like you said, that never made it. Right. You know, that just never made it. ⁓ you know, a lot of talented guys. But ⁓ you know, yeah, he was he was probably the one that I would say you you you really liked watching his career kind of unfold.

speaker-1: Well, you know, I saw a guy on YouTube that was kind of dirty grinder, whatever you want to put, three, four, five years, whatever. You he's somewhere under five years in the big leagues. And he did on YouTube, I saw that's where I saw it, he did a thing on the top ten guys he saw that were ungodly talented that didn't make it. And without getting into too much of his show, but one of the things he talked about was a guy that went in the second round, he goes, My guy he goes, B P I've never seen anything like it. He's sitting balls six miles, but he was from a major university with a four ⁓ GPA and a degree and was always kind of like, ⁓ I'll go back and be a multimillionaire doing whatever, you know, and he signed for a lot of money. He came from a family with money, went to a prominent university. And he goes, I never say that he didn't like show up on time, or he goes, but I just thought never thought his heart was in it. And he goes, I look back when I'm thirty-five at some of the guys that like me that made it to the big leagues, and I thought about it. The reason we made it to the big leagues, we were scared to death of getting released every day. Yeah. Like and you know, and I thought that that makes a lot of sense. You know, and Gary's told me that story. Label's told me that story because he pitched in the big leagues till he's 38. And he told me this one time. We were out at dinner or lunch and we were talking. He goes, you know, Jack, I never got out of my mind the thought of getting sent home to my small town in Pennsylvania and having to explain to everybody why I got released. And I'm like, I think that kind of makes you probably pretty good. If it means something to you. And I'll say and I'll say this one 'cause you guys appreciate this. I I'd never heard this before, but they just retired John Regan's number. Back to some redskin history. And I saw this ⁓ piece that they did, it was on X, but he was talking about I played for the fans. Because I heard Joe Namath when I was with the in Shea Stadium with the Jets get cheered, and I thought, I want that for me one day. I closed my eyes and imagined it was for me. But then he said when he was playing for Washington and they're in the Gibbs years and they're going to Super Bowls. He said the worst, this was so crazy. He goes, the worst moments of my life was I would come in throwing a t-shirt and I'd kind of like try to fall asleep before we had to go out and do warm-ups for the game. And he goes, This was the time I always thought, today the fans are gonna find out I'm a fraud. That's what he said. And I thought, how we he goes, Yeah, so if I think about it, this is a Hall of Fame running back who had more yards after thirty than he did before thirty, all that strange stuff about him. But he said

speaker-0: Ha ha ha.

speaker-1: Yeah, when I think about it, I think I played out of fear of being embarrassed. I was so afraid I was gonna be embarrassed and they were gonna find me out. And I just use this football guy, but I think some of the greatest players of all time are gonna be the ones that are pissed at, you know, mommy, daddy, the high school coach that told me weren't good enough, what whoever, you know. And if you if you have that burr in your saddle, you y you know, and I and I also think you guys have lived this. I understand I'm a free market guy. I'm all for the bucks and everything. But I think the guys can sign for so much money that all the incentive just got taken out.

speaker-0: right out the window. Goes right out the window. It's it's yeah, it's like it's like anything else in this day and age, right? Kids, kids think they're entitled to things just in general in life. But going back, Jack, you know, the the the question you asked me before the the one person that that stands out from the college side of it, okay, and I and I tell I tell this story all the time. My first year as the head coach at Hostra We go down, this would have been the spring of two thousand and one or two thousand and two. We go down to play in a little round robin tournament at the College of Charleston. And John Pala John Pulowski is the head coach of the College of Charleston. Pulowski had been he had been the pitching coach of Clemson for a while. You he pitched in the big leagues. Good dude. And they've got this center fielder who's a sophomore. And this guy is a one man wrecking crew. I've never seen anything like it. Okay. Let's

speaker-1: Pick I know who you're talking to.

speaker-0: Hitter, he bunts, he steals second, steals third. Next time he gets up, hits a double, steals third, hits a home run, right? Throwing guys out, making catches. It was Brett Gardner. Okay. Yep. And I asked Pulowski after the game, I go, Who the f is that kid in center field? He's like, Let me tell you this story. He goes, I didn't even know who he was. He goes, We didn't even recruit him. He came here as a walk-on. And there's a guy that

speaker-1: What's

speaker-0: Thirteen, fourteen years in the big leagues, he's a he's a Yankee legend almost, you know? And there's a guy that, you know, I've never seen anybody single handedly take over a baseball game like Brett Gardner did. But, you know, another again, another small guy, not a great arm, you know, has some tools but just willed his way to major league baseball. Twenty

speaker-1: Here's what's crazy too. Here's a bit of trivia. I went to New York to see Josh. I think it was in the ⁓ eight season. I think it was ⁓ eight. But anyway, I'm at Brett Gardner's first game. So the the Yankees were playing against the Rangers and I'm with a friend of mine and he hits a ground ball and he gets thrown out bang bang. But I was like, That's a fast white kid. I s I thought was like the first thing. Who the hell is that? Like Then I see South Carolina and all the rest of that stuff, but it it just looked like a really, really I was like, Dan, that that dude he's small and all, but God he can run. Yeah, shout out to him. All right, so let's go ahead and try to solve all this kind of stuff. So we talked about all this stuff with ⁓ th the modern day kid, the parent, ⁓ I'll tell you something both both interesting when I did the show with Kadir, I asked him, did he feel a special pressure being a first round pick, ninth overall, ninety seven draft, team and Curtis going, both from Great Bridge High School. And you know, the guy that was kind of on the front end of that, Matt Williams had gone out of VCU in I think the fourth round, and he got to the big leagues. And ⁓ Jimmy Anderson going out in what, ninety three or something like that. But And you know, and Wayne Gomes, Wayne was over on the Hampton side, went to old Dominion, went fourth overall. So we we had some picks, but we didn't really have coming out of seven five seven a lot of noise really until the Kadire thing started that trend. And I said, You know, Michael, you know we all loved you in the area, we're all supportive of our guys and all, but did you feel a special pressure? And he goes, Jack, I never played for scholarship, I never played for signing bonus. I just found out as a kid I was pretty good at baseball and I just wanted to play. You know, and I said it's gonna take me wherever it's gonna take me. It was an interesting thing. You know, Florida State's where he committed, but he signed, you know, for one point nine million. But it was interesting because I believe him when he said that, he said, I never thought in terms of this scholarship or that scholarship, or I just played the game and I figured the game was gonna take me wherever it was gonna take me. And I say that to say too often when I hear parents, th it's like they're making a business decision. on what school the kid goes to and the rest. And you know, we're we're all in that world because we're talking to these parents. And I'm like, you know, it's never bad advice to say, have your kid go where he'd go to school if he never played baseball again. I think that's true. But there are places to go to school, put another way. I've told parents, you've got to think in terms of your kid playing professional baseball because they're that guy. And I remember a mom one time said, Well, sir, I've I've seen the numbers and ⁓ the champ like, no, no, no, no, no. If you take all high school kids in the world and whether or not they're gonna get a chance to play Pro Ball, yes, statistically that's it. But when your kid throws ninety six, you know, with the hook and all, he's not in that pool. He's not in that pool of do we know whether or not this kid has a chance. So you have to prepare in a sense to are you gonna put your kid in the right environment? So again, for Josh for Liberty, great program. But when you went to Lewisburg, what better place? You know, and I think you made yourself some money by you guys going to the World Series because you got even more exposure. You got seen by more scouts. Yeah. So kids have to balance all these things. But but ⁓ what are really if we could if we could ⁓ change the environment somewhat, where where do you think the changes would be that would probably enhance one, the kids enjoying the game more, but also maxing out their abilities better. What do think?

speaker-0: Josh, you go.

speaker-2: Would make it better?

speaker-1: I mean, you got sons right now playing. I mean, do you think I'll put it that way, ⁓ do you think they're enjoying baseball as much as they could? I mean, 'cause you just had you just had one son go through this whole process. And I don't think it's a really nice process. I think I think it's kinda tough going through the whole recruiting thing, would you n I mean, as a father?

speaker-2: Mm. Absolutely. And and and it it's tougher now, you know, in the last couple of years with all the transfer portal. And I know that talk has been been talked about but so much. But I mean, if you just look, I mean, if you just look at our area now, the kids that have come out of our area the last two years, ⁓ that I know, because I coach Tuck, you know, coming up through travel bar, all that. So I I have good relationships with that, you know, twenty five class or whatever it was. You know, there's a lot of kids in this area still that have D one talent, that have, you know, ⁓ the talent to go to to to major schools, you know, in the ACC or or or whatever. And they don't they're not getting that opportunity to to to go to a school and and you know, hey, you're gonna go in as a freshman, you're probably gonna sit. You're gonna you might get a couple of bats or a couple of innings here or there, but you know. as a sophomore. You're gonna get a shot, maybe if you you know, depending on who you are, how you're doing. And then from there, you know, you build that that, you know, like I always use Carolina because I'm a Carolina fan, you know, you build that that Tar Heel Pride, that, that camaraderie and that, you know, that's my school, my university, and and now, you know, it's it's just guns for hire and and it it's, you know, and then it also, you know, it puts even like you were talking about earlier with big league guys and stuff just getting a contract and I'm done. Cool, I signed my three year twenty. I don't need to I can retire at twenty-six, twenty-seven, and I can just have a great life. And and, you know, it's the same thing kind of with kids now that that, you know, they're like, ⁓ I'm just gonna get this NIL money here and and, you know, I'm making ten thousand dollars a month to go to class and and do this. And I and I think for that stuff it's Like you like you said before, like there's no real love for the game and and you know, back when you played at Sandlot or or or any of those things. I mean I remember how intense and and and crazy wall ball games would get. Like, you know, back also to, you know, kids not throwing enough and just pitching too much. Like, you know, I I really think it's it's just become too you know, kids nowadays, even in showcase ball, Cooper, my my sixteen year old now, as of a couple of weeks ago You know, and you see these showcase teams and you go to Georgia and East Cobb and those things. And these kids think they're freaking big leaguers and they're acting and doing all that. And I'm like like it drives me insane. Like I I can't take that aspect. There's no respect for the game. There's no respect for the coaches. There's no respect for for anybody. And and I think I guess that's probably my answer is I I think if I could change anything the respect factor across the board for all of it would needs to be addressed 'cause it's it's a joke. All these spoiled brat kids who think you know Yeah, think they're Nolan Ryan and I know every

speaker-0: That's all to me that's a lot of that's parent driven. And you know, the the day of the the day of three price hard the day of the three port three sport athlete is gone, right? And these kids, you know, the they they think just because they're on the Richmond Braves that the next step is they're gonna get all these scholarship offers, right? And you know, it it's I mean it's like it's like anything else, dude.

speaker-2: The day of the

speaker-0: Do you know why minor league baseball exists? It exists for about 10 guys, okay, in an organization. And everybody else is just filling in so that they can play baseball games, right? I mean, it's it's true, okay? And you know, so the Risford Braves, I mean, those organizations, these kids think that, you know, one, they act like they've been in the big leagues for 10 years. Two, the parents, they shop their kids around to the different travel teams, and then they take that philosophy.

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: Into the college recruiting process. I can't tell you. Yes, I can't tell you some of the most ridiculous questions that parents have texted me saying, Here's what we're going to ask the coach at Raptor when we go there Saturday. And I'm like, You are absolutely not going to ask him how many other people are you recruiting at your son's position? You're absolutely not going to ask him how much playing time do you think little Tommy's going to get as a freshman? You're not asking those questions. Like, don't do it. Okay. And but those are the questions they ask they've been asking their whole lives in travel baseball, right? ⁓ if we're gonna come to the blasters, how much do you think he do you think he's gonna play a lot? How many are you gonna have on the roster? ⁓ you're gonna have thirteen guys on the roster? Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, dude, try having thirty nine guys. Try being at Randolph Macon where there's sixty five guys on the roster. You know, I mean it's it's it's ridiculous. So to me, the parents need to just get out of the way of a lot of this stuff. I think that You know, I think they've really they've hurt the they've hurt baseball more than helped, I think, because I I think they think they know more than they do. And yeah, like Josh said, there's a lot of division one kids in in you know in Hampton Roads who aren't playing division one baseball. Yeah, now the portal's got some some something to do with it. Okay. But at some point, dude, I mean I sat on the other side of those parent meetings for a long time. Okay. And you do not want to coach a kid whose parents e if the radar starts going up that these guys that the parents are gonna be nightmares, we're just not gonna recruit you. Like it's just not gonna happen. You know?

speaker-2: But the and it's the same thing if you're young. Like when like I remember when I was coaching coming up, like and you have a kid tr come try out for a twelve year old team or or eleven year old team or whatever, like I'm almost picking kids more based on how their parents act what their kid's ability is because I feel like, hey, if he's pretty good, I can make him better, but dealing with that every you know, I mean I've had parents come to me after a tournament you know, not only with notes on what I should do, and you know, at the end of the season come up with stats, you know, this is what my son's doing in the month of August on, you know, skin infields when it's 82 degrees or above, you know, and and I'm like, I don't like, I don't need any of that. Like I know, you know, like on on Tucker's team when he was coming up, like people would ask certain things. There was a kid from our area, Braden Bach. Probably one of the best hitters in in the class. He's now at East Carolina. Like he would go through some slumps sometimes, whatever. But guess what? B was my three-hole hitter. Right. He was going to stay in the three-hole, whether he was 0 for 12 or whether he was 11 for 12 with nine homers. He was that guy. Like he and and they don't people don't understand the game, like Doth was saying. Like they don't, they don't know what's going on. And not that I know everything. Right. But You know, y and that's another thing, like if you and I would tell parents this, I I got to the point where I was pretty probably too cutthroat in in parents' meetings and things, I would tell ⁓ Look, if you trust if you say, Hey, we offer you a spot and you want to come play for me, that means you trust me to make your kid better and to play him in the right spots and wherever he needs to be. And the only conversations I need to have with you are the one that says, Yes, we're we want to come play, it sounds great. And then if you besides you saying hi, hey coach, what's going on? The only other conversation I need to have is you coming up to me at some point maybe and saying, Hey, you know what? It's not working out. We feel like this is a is he's not getting the opportunity he should, and we're gonna go try to maybe find somewhere that we think might be better. And I will say no hard feelings. I'm sorry it didn't work out. Best of luck to you. If you need a recommendation, this is it. I don't need notes every weekend, phone calls during the week, this and that. pa no I mean and I and there's and there are a lot of parents who are great. I I'll I'll say that but there's also a lot of parents I mean parents are are that are terrible.

speaker-1: Yeah. I'll take it down a strange road, but I kinda I kind of lived it ⁓ because of my age where I am today and parents that live past ninety and knowing their experiences, I heard a commentator, somebody said, What the hell's wrong with parents today? The helicopter parent. And when this guy said this, I thought, man, that makes a lot of sense. He said, if you go back to the turn of the 20th century, my grandmother was one of thirteen. My mother's best friend, almost like one of her best friends. was her four years older than her aunt. So my grandmother was twenty years separated from her sister. And that was like my mom's friend. So the oldest two young ladies, or the my grandmother and the oldest sister, they pretty much raised all the younger ones. And the point that this commentator made is that parents didn't get close to their kid in nineteen, thirteen, fifteen, seventeen. They had ten kids, two died before they were three. So they were going to lose some of them. They just didn't get close to them. And the kids kind of raise, I'm not saying that they were neglected, but they kind of raised themselves. Right. And they had their own dreams. And then it was like, you want to be a whatever? Go figure out how you become a whatever. So you fast forward. So now you have family planning. You have birth control. The 1960s can roll around. So now the parents start having exactly 2.3 children. It's Susie and Jimmy, and now they've gravitated to they have to be. Perfect. And I I actually had a mother do this one time. I was working at Grand Slam. I'd take every lesson that came through the door, you know, in the Wrights and the Reynolds and all these guys that were you, Josh, you'd been in there. And I had a mother do a lesson with a 10 year old. And the kid was nice enough. He couldn't throw the ball 14 feet, but you know, we just do this little lesson thing. He's nice kid. The mother takes out a checkbook and I swear to you, she goes, So I understand you've worked with David Wright and Mark Reynolds and these guys. So where do you see Timmy? I'm like, Timmy's a nice kid. What what are we what are we doing? She said, she said, my husband and I sat down last night. We were like piano lessons, dance lessons, baseball. We're gonna put the money in whatever. And I said, ma'am, I can honestly tell you, I've worked with kids at 10 that couldn't walk and chew gum. They're on TV now. I've seen kids at 10 that everybody thought was can't miss. They never grew another inch, and by the time they were fifteen, they weren't even making the high school team. So if you're asking me, Timmy should only come. I said, Tim, do you have a good time? Yes, sir. If Timmy wants to come back, I'll be here for Timmy. But I literally I mean, I'm I l this is a true story. I literally had a mom saying, I got the checkbook out. Am I wasting my time investing any further in this? And I'm like, Holy cow, it's come to this. So when he said that, I say that to say all these parents that we've dealt with, all three of us have dealt with. They're putting a different emphasis on the success of the kit. I have another buddy of mine that's a JUCO coach, been in the World Series a bunch of times, and we were bitching about this 15 years ago. And he goes, Jack, I got six mothers being sexist here, but I have six mothers. Every Monday morning they email me the running stats of why our statistician's incorrect. Timmy's hitting 313. Not two ninety seven or whatever. And they're they're pissed because Timmy's numbers aren't right. They were all the scorekeeper for their respective travel teams. And they're he goes, Jack, I deal with it every Monday morning. I I have six mothers and I know what they're gonna do. They're gonna come and they're gonna rip me 'cause that ground ball that the you know the second baseman knocked in the right field wasn't an error, it was a hit. You know, Timmy should have gotten a hit, you know. I'm like, Really? I said, How do you deal with it? He goes, I ignore it. I try to ignore it. Now this is a guy taking his JUCO program to the World Series repeatedly. It's a great program. But we I was like, where the hell and I gotta say this one. Fifteen years ago when I'm coaching, and Josh, you came up there when I was at Rappahannock, I would do that old man get off my lawn speech at the start. And I was like, guys, here's some things. Hit a home run, never leave the dugout. What? And I'm like, it's Bush League. You know, don't jump up and down. When teams are getting their ass railed, when they're down nine to one, the guy hits a solo homer and you guys act like it's a big deal. It looks stupid, so don't do it. And then I said another thing. And this one, I'll never forget the expression on their faces. I said, I don't want to see one parent come near the fence with the Gatorade. I will throw it across the field. You and they were like, Coach, are you serious? And I'm like, dude, I'm gonna tell you what. I love my mom. Love my mom. She's a great woman. She came to my games because she loved me. She never said a word. She never spoke to a coach. She didn't say anything. She just came to support me. My dad got in the middle of stuff. I'm like, Dad, get back off. Get away from me. But but mothers back then didn't say anything. And I said, in my day, if I had been in the dugout and my mother had come up with some type of a beverage for me to grab, my teammates was like, Well, she go come wipe the ass, too. Your mom's coming. What your mother just came to the and it would be like, ⁓ my God, I'm emotionally destroyed now. Who's mom, why are you and now they all expect it. Yeah. And that is the most amazing thing to me when that started to turn and I saw mothers just throwing bags over to their kids. Hey mama'd you get my orange, you know, gator? And like, I can't believe that males are taking stuff from their mom in a dugout with other males. Yeah. So no, you're coaching, what's your rules on all this now, if you want to say them on this?

speaker-0: I just had a parent meeting the other day with my my thirteen year old team and I said those exact things. You know, I said, Hey, yeah, all the sports that I played in my life, okay, no matter what it was, football, basketball, baseball, I knew one thing was gonna happen every single time that I went and played in a game. And I I let it sit for a second and I go, I knew I was gonna get thirsty. So pack ⁓ with a frickin' data raid before they go. Give them four data race. But they're gonna get thirsty. I promise you. And then I tell them to stop. You know what the new thing is now? As soon as a kid gets up the badjack, they all go run into the screen with the video to video the kid hitting it. I mean, time after time I'm like, what are they doing with all those videos? Like where'd they go? Like, you know what I mean? How many videos can you watch? And I said stop I said stop doing it, because the only thing you're doing is you're making your kid nervous, and it's gonna come a point in time.

speaker-1: Yes.

speaker-0: Where maybe not at thirteen, but at seventeen, they're gonna start making fun of your son. Okay. Guys, you guys don't understand. You're playing your kids are playing with kids their own age right now. Okay. There's gonna come a point in time when your kid is fifteen and there's guys who are nineteen in the dugout, or your kid is eighteen and there are guys that are twenty-three in the dugout, okay? And you don't want them to be in a position where someone's busting their chops and Because you are doing something stupid in the stands.

speaker-2: Please.

speaker-1: Josh I'm sure you've had some experiences on this too, Josh. The parent, the out of control parent.

speaker-2: I mean and and I will say this, I I am probably in certain aspects can be guilty of being a little bit of a helicopter parent at some points. that being said, yeah, it it's I mean I would have I would have meetings 'cause you know, after especially when they're younger, like eleven, twelve, thirteen, maybe yeah, thirteen they maybe start to get out of it, but actually probably maybe not. You know, you're playing a doubleheader, you on a Sunday instead of going to tournament or something and in between games. You know, that little Johnny's gotta go out and his mom's got his own chair and his own little mini fridge and his, you know, apples with peanut butter and his pineapple here and his whatever there and and you know, I I just I started making rules and embattled people all the time when I would say, Hey, we got a break. I know it's hot, you got we got twenty five minutes in between games. I said, Walk out. Get whatever you gotta get from your parents, bring it back into dugout immediately. You can have your stuff in here, hang out with your boys, and then we'll get that and then we'll get going. But it's it's it never fails that, you know, parents just wanna I I don't know. It's just it drives me insane that and and I, you know, and some of it maybe they don't know, but so they're I I don't know. And I and I know at the heart of a lot of it with moms and things like that, they're trying to be They're trying to take care of their kid. That's their baby. Like you said, parents are more invested in in Yeah. There's only one or two of ⁓ I I I get that a lot, but you you gotta let the kids go. Like even at twelve, even at at at eleven. Hey, go figure it out, bro. I I can't hold your hand through it because someday, you know, like right now, I just dropped one off at college a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what he's doing right now. I hope he's good choices, you know. Right. He's he's out and about and you know, God willing he's you know, doing the right thing or or you know, reading a book or saying a prayer or something, but you don't know. And and if if kids are so sheltered and so coddled and so spoiled, which hey, I'll be the first admit my kids have been spoiled, like too much at times, whatever. But when they get out into those situations, well, not only it's the real world, not only is it people from all different parts of the country, maybe at their school that they're different, you know, you know, some people may be Republicans, some maybe may be, you know, liberal. Some people may be foreign from a different country and and you don't know how to act with those people because you're, you know, you've been sitting with mom, you know, wiping your ass, as you said earlier, like it's just setting them up for failure in and not even just in sports, in life in general. You you people can't have a conversation with anybody anymore and sit down and just, you know, bullshit with the guys and and and talk. Like it it's it's unbelievable.

speaker-1: Yeah, I think something else too. I remember Scout telling me fifteen, twenty years ago. He was like, Jack, in a couple of decades the whole game's gonna be Latin American and Asian. And I'm like, I don't disagree with that. I think I think it's about where it's going too. And he goes, Yeah, because the American kids are too soft. He's like he's like, they're just getting softer and soft there. And I think the other d biggest disservice that parents can do, and again, they're paying. I'm not in a position to say it, but I'm gonna say it anyway. No, I one of the things is a former junior college coach used to bug hell of me. A lot of guys junior college was just right. It was perfect. Josh, I think it was pretty good for you, right? You signed for what, four forty out of there in their third round and on the way to the big leagues, but I I've and it's in certain regions. It de it it is but I've had the parent where I'm like, hey, your kid goes JUCO, he's gonna get developed and he's gonna be on the field immediately. In a couple of years of that he'll He's gonna have to be a turnkey junior. They don't bring juniors up from JUCO programs to sit the bench. So you go in and put two good years and you got a shot. My son goes to a junior year college, you know, and then it's like, well, okay. No, or you can go and you can overshoot and you can go to the school your kid's never gonna play, and then you're gonna be brokenhearted in the first to the end of this first semester because he's never gonna play there. Now you're scrambling to find another school. Exactly. And but but it's because

speaker-2: And you missed the button.

speaker-1: It's a keeping up with the Joneses and I know that is so prevalent in ⁓ travel ball. God, you get around these parents is like, I can't believe Timmy's going to fill in the blank and Jimmy didn't get this, or they're all pissed and moaning about what schools their kids go to. Some of those kids are gonna bypass. Some of those kids are g I I know it's coming sometime. It's the kid that's gonna end up being the one, you know, the late bloomers are the ones often that become the very, very best. So they're gonna be the late bloomers. But if you're if you're so concerned with what that's the point. If you're a parent so concerned what everybody else is gonna think about the choice you make where your kid goes to school or the son's choice, then you got a problem. But again, you're the one paying the bill. You're the you're the one paying the bill.

speaker-2: Right. And and parents are so bad with with you know, I mean, there's so much shit talked about grown people talking about fifteen, sixteen year old kids and they're I can't believe this kid's going there. You know what? Like, good for that kid. You know, this game is hard. And and and all kids on I mean and and the kids aren't usually the ones at fault. They're all a product of their environment. You know? That's right. Little Johnny doesn't know any better how to act like that because he's been brought up that now. My job as a coach is to try to, you know, help that, but also with you know the social media and I know I sound a freaking old man now talking about that, but you know, all these kids with their, you know, ⁓ commitment videos. I mean and and I won't say any names and and I've seen a couple of these commitment videos and the k they're from kids that I like. Yeah. Right. I have nothing really bad to say about, but I've seen a commitment video of a kid Switching high schools yeah.

speaker-0: Well you got kids going to baseball schools now. You got you got

speaker-2: I'm like, wait, what since when do you com I just committed to ⁓ Grammy from from, you know, Cape Henry? What? How do you commit to a high you can't commit to a high school, bro. There's nothing there. Just shut up and go play

speaker-0: You know, the thing that I that I say to the parents too, I was like, what you need to understand is you're seeing this whole process through one lens, and that lens is as a parent. Okay. Right. And the only lens you've ever seen it through, for the most part, right? Is as a parent of a nine-year-old, a ten year old, eleven year old, twelve year old. What you don't understand is that the people who are making the decisions on what's going to happen with your son, their lens is completely different from yours. Okay. And I try to tell them I'll be like, look, you know, yeah, I'm coaching your high school kid now, but my lens, I have different lenses. I've got the college baseball lens. I've got the professional baseball lens. Okay. And and so you don't see the things I see And you would never see the things I see because you're never you're never gonna have that lens, you know, and and they just they're they're just it's it's a very, you know, kind of a one way street for them. And ⁓ yeah, the commitments, I mean you got kids now bouncing out of high school their senior year to go to PDG or one of these baseball academies 'cause they think that the extra fifteen games they're gonna play their senior year of high school is gonna make that much of difference to them in their baseball career. I mean it's you know, ⁓ Stubby just lost a kid from first colonial, the the Ambrose kid, the catcher, who's going to Virginia Tech. Yeah. Okay. He just bolted ⁓ in the right at the beginning of his senior year to go to PDG up in Fredericksburg. And I'm like he's already committed. And it's not like FC's never had guys in the big leagues before. I mean, come on. Right. It's not you know what I mean? Like it makes no sense to me. It makes zero sense.

speaker-2: And he's already spitted.

speaker-0: Like I don't get it.

speaker-2: Yeah. And there's a there's one around here now.

speaker-1: I think the other thing too is I I get it from a parent. There's a marketing aspect. There is a division one coach who's very prominent. We know who he is. He's no longer in Virginia, but I always thought the world of him. And I went one time to his office just to drop in and say, Hey and he said, You know, the whole thing's gotten so ugly. There are the people now that run around and they're basically like college agents and they represent these kids in these travel programs. And if if I don't really kind of kiss their ass and have these kids come to my camps You know, I will say this name. You remember Chris Rawl? Chris went in the fifth round out of William and Mary. I don't think he'd remi I don't think he'd mind me telling the story either. I had him for three weeks in fallball with that White Sox team, the week that Josh U pitched for, then we had Lumston Verlander, you know, we were going through Jeremy Jeffers later. Somewhere in that lineup, we had Chris one fall, and I've had him for two weekends. And this is two things I could see he could do. He had arm strength and courage. Crazy foot speed. And when I was coaching third, he was the kind of kid I loved. If he was at second and the ball was hitting the infield, I had to physically tackle him for keep him from that. There was no stopping him. He had one speed, it was a hundred miles an hour. So I go over to mom and dad, and I'll never forget I go over to mom and dad and I said, Hey, your kid's not going to get drafted this year, but he's going to get drafted as a junior. He's a pro guy. And the father goes, Pro guy.

speaker-0: Ha ha ha.

speaker-1: I don't think he gets love in high school. I won't say what high school. You know, and I like, Hey, your kids ⁓ you think my son's a pro player. I go, Yeah, 'cause he can really throw with electricity and he can run. So they're like, Well, we really want him in a good academic school. How about William and Mary? So Ryan Wheeler loved him. I I still love Ryan. So I go to Ryan, I said, Wheels, I got a kid I want you to watch today, Chris Rawl. And he goes, You know, I've heard that name. He watches in one game. He comes over and he goes, ⁓ my God, ⁓ my God, he's open. I go, yeah. So we seal the deal. He plays at William Mary. First pitch he ever sees in college, I'm at the game. He hits a grand slam, bases loaded, hits a winning home run on the first pitch he ever sees in college. Sophomore year, he has twenty home runs, forty eight stolen bases. He's first team All American. Hits four ⁓ five or something. He goes into third round. I mean he goes into fifth round his next year, he gets drafted. So he gets honored one night in a peninsula. And the the father was like, son of a bitch, you remember what you said that day? And I was like, Yeah. So you really saw that. I'm like, dude, I don't know how everybody else doesn't see it. Right. So I run into Ryan Wheeler and Ryan's like, This is when he's making all American. He goes, Jack, Jack, Jack, you the pro Jimmy and I both, we thank you so much for for helping Chris get here, you know, and influencing him. I Hey, it's where you wanted to go. You're good guys. I thought it would work out. And he goes, You're just so different than all the other fallball coaches or these travel guys. And I go, What do you mean? He goes, You don't really know what goes on, do you? And I'm No, do you what are you talking about? He goes, They won't promote their players unless they get something out of it. Their program gets something. And I'm like, What? And he goes, Yeah, they're kind of like sports agents for college kids. And he goes, You never ask anything. I'm like, Why the hell would I ask anything? I'm coaching the travel team in the fall or you know, the fall, you what it was. It was a very elite team. Yeah. But I'm like, my job is to get these guys out to good people at colleges. And and I'm not trying to sound like Joe Virtuous, but it was I was like, I never what what would be in it for me? Like other than the joy of seeing the guy go to the right school and go in the fifth round. That that's what I I love, Chris. But it was weird to me to hear Ryan's like, you don't really know how this works, do you? And I'm like, so then I started getting the vibe that that's what a lot of these guys were doing. And the other disservice I always thought is they'd send a guy to a school the kid couldn't possibly play, often in a package deal with another guy that can, and then after that kid has a failure freshman year, they never take off the banner that that kid went to some school way out of his league. Right. So they'll keep saying, Hey, Jimmy went to fill in the blank division one, you know, high end division one, but he's never gonna play there. So

speaker-2: No, there is a lot of like I've I've seen it a little bit and you hear some things where you know these showcase coaches ⁓ you know they they want money for from from colleges or or perks from colleges for getting the guy to go there. You know, I've even there's even coaches, I mean like Tucker would get hit up by there's a certain organization ⁓ that guy would find kids on video games. And like message ⁓ through like ⁓ Playstation and things like that, trying to poach ⁓ from different teams and and Wow. And like there's some crazy, crazy stories. And I and I

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-2: I will say in in I we were fortunate enough, I know Tucker and Cooper now still plays for like we he was talking about the Richmond Braves. ⁓ those guys have been amazing for us. Yeah. Like they did like Tucker and and the guy Tommy Mayers and Eric Mayers, his son, who are the the head guys there now, ⁓ like they are it is the most family environment

speaker-1: ⁓ I agree too.

speaker-2: You know, and I'm sure there's certain people that maybe had didn't have a good experience.

speaker-1: No, Brandon Brandon coaches with them.

speaker-2: ⁓ Eric ⁓ coached Cooper for at least one year. ⁓ Tommy the Dad is involved. Like they're great people. Chip Runyan, who's who's from, you know, known him forever. He played in the Pro Ball from around here, went to G C A with me, was a year older than me. ⁓ Chip is like the head ⁓ guy talking to colleges for kids and things like that. Him and a guy named Dustin, who's a ⁓ a preacher in Richmond. ⁓ But those guys are are are now one of the few organizations that do it for the right reasons. I think so. And that the joy of doing that is is is it's really it's like you said, that's all it should be freaking anyway. I don't I don't need some kickbacks or anything like that. That's that's if I get that kid to go to Alabama to play baseball, I'm not gonna ask for any kickbacks from

speaker-1: No, no I'm not gonna hold up.

speaker-2: From the school or from the coaches, but I tell you what that kid I may hey man, remember me? I helped you out that give me some tickets to a football game or something, you know. But but the coaches doing it, I mean it's unbelievable racket. ⁓

speaker-1: Sure. It is. All right guys, we're we're pretty deep in here, so let's ⁓ let's start wrapping things up again. Seven five seven special area, you know, I've can Josh Roob, Chris Dolo, two guys that play professional baseball, they played college baseball, they grew up in the area, they have coached at different levels. Hm.

speaker-2: Is Dotes taking notes? Yeah.

speaker-0: I'm not taking notes.

speaker-1: There there are gonna some questions at the end. All right. Fin final thoughts. Chris Dodlo, final final thoughts.

speaker-0: wish that there were more multi sport athletes. ⁓ I wish baseball kids would play, you know, more sports. I I don't like I don't like ⁓ I mean, you know, I I I I like fall baseball, but I don't like fall baseball. You know, I think there's kids who should be doing soccer or ⁓ football or, you know, something else in the fall. You know, I used to I never forget when I was at Dartmouth. you know, ⁓ certain type of kid that we would have to, you know, be involved with. But there were many a times in the fall I would run down and watch a New England ⁓ kid play in a high school football game. And then I'd come back and I'd report to my boss Bob Whalen. And I'll never forget we had a kid that the ended up being recruited football and baseball and played both sports at Dartmouth. And I went down there and watched a play high school football game and I came back to Bob and I said, We need this guy. Like he's ripping people he's ripping people's heads off on the field. He's the linebacker, first baseman. I'm like we we need a guy like this in our program. And you know, so I I I I would love to see that come back. I don't know if it ever will, but ⁓ you know, I think that's been kind of a ⁓ you know, ⁓ part of the demise, I think, of, you know, all the things we've talked about tonight.

speaker-1: Well, I actually saw a study probably ten years ago that said that multiple sport athletes were thirty nine percent less likely to be injured. The more sports you played, you tended you you picked up a lot of skills from different things and you're breaking up the cycle. If you only play baseball twelve months a year, especially in the Sun Belt area where you can do that, you're more likely to break down. But if you're playing multiple sports and we're way past this is my old man get off the lawn. Josh, you've heard this a million times, but Fifteen years ago, I'm on the van with the kids and I'm saying, guys, professional athletes were best in the eighties and nineties, and it probably peaked into that sometime, maybe into the two thousands. They're like, I don't know, coach. I don't know if I'm like, Yeah, don't tell me Lawrence Taylor couldn't play linebacker today. And for God's sake, don't tell me that you guys have a Bo Jackson. And that kind of shut up the conversation. I'm like, guys, his skills in baseball, he was starting to figure it out. He gets injured. We all know that, but I'm like, he's got over five yards of carry in professional football. No Find me somebody can run with him. Find me somebody can run better than Bo Jackson and has that body. And they don't. And that's a guys, he grew up in Alabama. He threw rocks. He chased things. He you know, he's a he's a southern kid that grew up in the heat. He didn't grow up in air conditioning. He just went out there and got after it. And he's Bo Jackson, you know?

speaker-0: Let's not forget about Brian Jordan at University of Richmond. I mean

speaker-1: New York kid he's out of New York went to Richmond.

speaker-0: I mean he was an animal at that level, you know.

speaker-1: Y yeah, you're right. He he was a great defensive back and he made the all star game in baseball and then of course Dion's another one. But yeah, Jay Schrader was the third overall pick in baseball, washes out and goes plays pro football, walked right in and starts the NFL as a quarterback. And John Elway had a summer in in A ball, but that was common. Like everybody in the NFL that threw the ball eighty yards back then got drafted in baseball. Now Tom Brady did get drafted as a catcher. And apparently he was a power hitting left handed catcher. ⁓ yeah, go look at the stuff on him. He was really highly ranked as a prospect. He got drafted by the Expos before they were the Nats. Yeah. And I mean, I've seen this report. They really thought he had a future. He threw well from behind the plate, but he also hit bombs from the left side. Tom Brady. Check it out. Yeah. So all right, Josh, what do you want to say in closing, other than your surprise that Tom Brady was a great baseball player?

speaker-2: I just don't see catcher in in the

speaker-1: That's what he was. ⁓ Catcher. Okay.

speaker-2: Hey, there you go. Tony he's the goat, I guess. That's why it is. I don't know. But what closing closing remarks as in what I think needs to be better about baseball?

speaker-1: I'm a fan. Yeah, just just about your overall experience, growing up in Tidewater, having friends like us, you know, all the all the special times we've had because we grew up in this or you guys grew up there and I ended up there, but great area.

speaker-2: Absolutely. I mean and and even like I was talking about earlier with relationships and things like that, you know, the the the baseball community in this area, you know, is everybody for the most part pretty much has everybody's back. If anybody needs no doubt. You know, like I mean, if I if I had some need for something and I text Mike right now, he's gonna text me back and and offer his support and I would do the same for him and and that goes for Dave and and and BJ and a and all those guys. I mean I I saw what was it when they retired, BJ's ⁓ they did something for BJ. Remember he was at the pilots game. What was that? I don't remember. And I saw I hadn't seen him in forever. We'd talk every now and again. But and and that's the thing, you you know, you pick up where you left off. And I I think that's one great thing, especially in baseball too, is is you know, when you don't see guys for a long time, when you when you see him again, it could be two years, it could be six months, it could be five years. It's like pick it up right where you left off when, you know, if I see Mark or see Zim or see those guys, like it's just it's been a great it's been great to be able to be a part of of this area and everything that goes through it. And and a lot of that is a testament to the coaches and people we had before us, like you, like Coach Lavelle, like Towny Townsend, ⁓ Hurricane Alan Irby, ⁓ who

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, I loved her yeah.

speaker-2: He was BJ and Dave's coach on the Blasters. You know, there's so many so many guys in the area that that helped them out helped us out and would do anything for us, coaches, you know, even college coaches like, you know, Coach Booth.

speaker-1: Nick, Nick, no doubt. Nick did a lot to help a lot of kids. Nick

speaker-2: Crazy as Coach Booth is, you know, if I ever needed anything, I could come out there and throw bullpins before I want to sprain in and throw to hitters, whatever we needed, you know, and and that's that's I think the thing that that hopefully can, you know, I don't know if it happens as much now. I'm a kind of a little bit out of that loop, but that was big where, you know, we would all go out. I mean, you could go out to Wesleyan on a on a Wednesday afternoon and it would and I would be out there. Smitty would be out there, Clay Rapotta would be out there, my brother in law David Wintry would be out there taking swings. ⁓ you know, you could walk it there

speaker-1: It was a who's who professional baseball. Yeah, yeah, you're right.

speaker-2: Like and we'd all just be hanging out and and and and now I don't know how much of that still happens, but I think a lot of that was there was always somewhere to go. There was always somewhere that somebody wanted to help the you there was always somebody you could talk to and somebody that you could just go and and and get on a field and and just talk baseball and and and get better and if they didn't know how to make you better in a certain aspect, they'd point you in the direction of somebody they thought could and That's the thing. It was there's no egos, there's none of that. It was everybody was trying to help everybody. You know, it's like one of those things where you go to a a ⁓ different part of somewhere, a country or whatever, and you see somebody from Virginia. I've never met ⁓ before in my life, but hey, since you're from Virginia and we're not in Virginia, you're my guy. Like it's That's right. It's you know, that's that's how it always has been and and I hope that it is still that way. Some I'm not too sure, but that's That's the thing that I think is has been the best talent.

speaker-1: One thing I can say before Towney and Gary opened that building, one thing I could say that was almost kind of a common denominator among all the guys I saw that were special that that went through that group was Jim and Prudy Ramsey in the Grand Slam USA. So I mean, you know God, Jim and Prudy were awesome, but I mean they all ran through there and they had that wall as guys were making. I just thought about Tim Levine, Jason the Boys, beat on Cox, you know, but they had a wall up of just the news on everybody. And they had a complete wall filled up. And it was great.

speaker-2: Placed to go there.

speaker-1: Yeah. And it was it was it was filling up. I got there in ninety three and you know, by two thousand, some of you guys were all getting drafted or in college ball, getting ready to get drafted. And I was watching that wall grow, just the things that were on the wall. And ⁓ that is one other thing I noticed. I was at a camp in New York, New York State, and this older nice lady said, like, Where are you from, honey? And I Virginia Beach. She goes, ⁓ my God, Stan, he's from Virginia Beach and she's ripping off the names. I was like, Wow. I told that to Gary and Michael. I was like, you know, I'd start to travel and people like, ⁓ my God, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, like people like that was impactful. If you said you were yeah, people knew started to you know, this is the guys I knew, you know, I saw you guys grow up and I'm thinking it's great. But I really started to realize that people were noticing in baseball circles, like, man, that's a really special area. But as far as that goes, I think that's just something that happens. Because of again, I think it was a lot of Gary and Towney and the other gay guys you mentioned having the the Grand Slam as an indoor facility for people to congregate and meet each other. I don't know that we'll ever gonna touch on that again. ⁓ at late bloomers, just talk about Colin too. Roberson, like I saw Colin, Colin used to come in and hit with me, and he was like five inches shorter than every other kid. He goes to Wesley, I don't know what the hell happens. He's throwing clotheslines one day, and this buddy of mine was like it was Joe, Joe Comb. Is that an average arm? I'm like, no, it's a well above average arm. And and he was like seeing him throw clotheslines to third from right. Feeling he ends up playing professional baseball. And you know, Colin had as much raw ability as anything I've ever seen, like physically. Yeah.

speaker-2: You should see him. He actually him and he helps Day Day coach their eleven year old team. Their sons play on on on the same team and him and Day Day coach that team. It's it's pretty

speaker-1: Biggest late bloomer I've ever seen. I never saw anybody improve that much that fast and grow that much and become that. Okay, folks. Love these guys. Josh Roop, Chris Dodo Lowe, great baseball people. We're gonna continue to do this. We're matter of fact, we've got to do like a playoff edition and we'll just go right on through the fall and talk about how far professional baseball has fallen. But we're gonna watch it anyway, right? It's September. We're getting we're getting into the playoff drive. What is it like? Twenty twenty seven teams are eligible for the playoffs and then how it works now. You know, it's it's not very selective. More to consider. Please like and subscribe. Please comment. You'll probably have some great comments for this show. God bless you all. Thank you, gentlemen.

speaker-0: Thanks, Jack.

speaker-2: Thanks, sir. Yep, love you, brother.

speaker-1: Love ya. ⁓