America's 250th: Are We Still the Country the Founders Imagined?

Moore To Consider: Welcome to another edition of Moore to Consider with Jack and Charles. Charles, how are you, brother?

Charles Hundley Jnr: I'm doing all right, man. How about you?

Moore To Consider: I'm hanging on, brother. All right. So we Kai, we keep doing shows based on the most current events that we can talk about without being too terribly obnoxious or dangerous or whatever you want to call it. So we talk, as I talk about all the time on the opening of shows, and this is what Charles wants to talk about today. The 250th anniversary of American independence will be celebrated for July 2026.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Mm-hmm.

Moore To Consider: With a series of events organized by the Freedom 250 Initiative, which was launched by one Donald J. Trump, president of the United States. The celebration aims to inspire a nude love for American history and includes various festivals throughout the year or festivities. The 250th anniversary will be celebrated this milestone, you know, 4 July, this milestone marks a significant moment in U.S. history. Now you're much younger than I am. Well, you're 10 years younger than I am. I remember 200 like it was yesterday. I was 14. So you were four-ish, I guess. Yeah. Five, five, right. I remember it very well. And it was a different country. So I would say, you know, at that time, every five minutes, ⁓ major automobile manufacturers, oil companies, whatever, like, hey, this is a 200th, ⁓ 200th anniversary moment. President Gerald Ford was the president at the time. And

Charles Hundley Jnr: Right. Four five. Yeah. Mm-mm.

Moore To Consider: It was really quite an event, you know, and it was a different country. So I think people were much more behind that. Now, what they want from the goal, inspire a renewed love for American history. I think we're in trouble on that. Encourage citizens to experience the beauty of the country. Okay. Ignite a spirit of adventure and innovation for future success. Promote unity and prayer for the nation. June 24 opening ceremony features President Trump.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes.

Moore To Consider: Four July is the main celebration. You have some thoughts on all of this. Go.

Charles Hundley Jnr: I was kinda hoping that it was gonna be a little more regal, I guess, for lack of better term. But it seems as though it's turned into a ⁓ it's turning into what you call it, ⁓

Moore To Consider: Sideshow?

Charles Hundley Jnr: A sideshow, yes. A carnival, pretty much. And I saw a picture yesterday morning of the back of the White House and there's the UFC ring and I guess you call it quote unquote arena if you want being built back there. And I'm like, why? Just why? Why do we have to do this? Why do we have to turn this into

Moore To Consider: Carnival, like that, yeah. Okay. Uh-huh.

Charles Hundley Jnr: ⁓ a carnival. It there could have been a whole lot of other things they they could have done to celebrate the two hundred fiftieth anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. I don't think a UFC fight on the grounds of the White House is something that they should have done. It kind of makes it it it it's it's pretty tacky, honestly. It is very unbecoming.

Moore To Consider: Unbecoming. Yeah. I think that's yeah.

Charles Hundley Jnr: I don't know why why it this was necessary. The you know, the artists that are pulling out from this quote unquote celebration. I mean he was already, you know, digging the the bottom of the barrel when when Milli Vanilli decides that they're gonna cancel on you, you know there's something wrong.

Moore To Consider: Well slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down. Wait a minute. One of the two members of Milli Vanilli committed suicide, if I'm not mistaken.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yeah. Okay.

Moore To Consider: I didn't know there was a Milli Vanilli anymore. I mean, I remember God, what's that been? Thirty years ago, their downfall? They come out with all the top ten charting hits and then it's discovered they're not real. They got the back channel people singing for them. So so wait a minute, did you just say that Milli Vanilli pulled out on this?

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ that's

Moore To Consider: 'Cause I only thought one half was even still around.

Charles Hundley Jnr: ⁓ it says Milla Vanilli's fake singer drops trump concert.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ okay. The guy that was in the background, the actual fake singer, he's backed out. Former yeah.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Right. So Milli Vanilli out, vanilla ice is in. This is four days ago.

Moore To Consider: Okay.

Charles Hundley Jnr: And it's like, okay, why though man? Why do we have to do this?

Moore To Consider: Well vanilla ice would definitely be a unifying factor, right?

Charles Hundley Jnr: In what way? And by the way, this is one of the actual Milli Vanilli guys. This isn't yeah.

Moore To Consider: Yeah, one's left. Yeah, one is left. One one was left. It was two in the group. They were discovered to be lip syncing. Someone, yeah, they were lip syncing for some other singers. And then when that came out, they had Grammys pulled, if I'm not mistaken. God, when was that though? Was that mid-90s? Or maybe even early nineties. Because yeah, they were a thing in the early 90s. I know that. They were a thing in the early 90s, and then they were not. And I think

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yeah, something like that, mm. Yeah.

Moore To Consider: One of the two, if not both, tried to do solo careers and it was like, guys, you can't actually sing. You never could sing. And then one of ⁓ was so, I think, despondent about the way things went down. He took his own life. I'm pretty sure of that, one of the two.

Charles Hundley Jnr: The the guy who's left, his name is I guess it's Fabrice ⁓ Morvon, called it a circus.

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sounds right. sorry, say that again. ⁓ damn. So if you got your y yeah, if if they're in if those guys with that background or at least one of is running down your plan because you're saying it's ⁓ not exactly ⁓

Charles Hundley Jnr: He called it a circus. Yeah. That's pretty bad, man.

Moore To Consider: on the up and up or again unbecoming of the White House or the nation or whatever. Yeah, Milli Vanilli, Fab Marvan, and Rob Pallatus. The duo was founded, blah, blah, blah. Milli Vanilli, February 1990s when they're coming out. Their years active, actually eighty eight to ninety. and let's see, it must have been Palatus that, yeah. Died April 3, 1998. And ⁓ I think it was in response to he was thirty-two, thirty-three years of age, or not sure on the birthday, but he died. And ⁓ yeah, I just remember it's tragic. ⁓ you know, not everybody goes through that. They become an overnight sensation, then found out to be not true or not real. All right. So let's back up here a little bit. ⁓ You're saying it's unbecoming. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way, but aren't we just in an environment that I don't care what Trump does, it's not going to be liked by a certain segment of the population. And I'm not saying you don't have grounds to say that things are embarrassing, but there's a segment of the population that's not going to find it embarrassing. And I think they would be kid rock groups and, you know, probably vanilla ice and some other yeah.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Mm.

Moore To Consider: ⁓ yeah.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Well, this is how I look at it and somebody on Twitter whatever you want to call it, put this up ⁓ along with the picture. And I'm gonna he called it what most people know of it, but ⁓ think it's it's good to read the entire quote. It's from Juvenal from Juvenal from ⁓ twenty three BC and his quote is already long ago. From when we sold our vote to no man, the people have abdicated our duties. For the people who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions, everything now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things bread and circuses. And it is pretty clear as to this is what's happening right now. It's

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm.

Charles Hundley Jnr: We're going to and by the way, that was that was in response to whatever emperor was at the time that decided to have a series of gladiator fights. And obviously at the fights he was going to give out bread. And it was to distract the populace as to what was going on at the time in Rome. And dude, I don't see any difference here. I I really don't.

Moore To Consider: Mm-hmm. I get it, brother. I get it. I I get it. And ⁓ you know, I actually remember years ago reading a it was a Christian philosopher basically, and he said, if you want to see the downgrade of any civilization, look at the art. Like the more the art skews towards people painting actual, almost lifelike life life like images versus abstract. It's an ascendancy. The abstract means you're on a downturn. And I think There's a point to be made that you're making that we're par this is a parallel of other times in world history. Nothing's new under the sun. That seems to be that when governments are debasing the currency, that was another aspect that was talked about when they when ⁓ it got too expensive to fight the wars, they're calling in everybody's gold. They're melting down the gold and now the coins are not full not fully gold. They're

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes.

Moore To Consider: gold and a lot of other crap and because it is they're just out of money and they're trying to so as they debase your currency, the currency's worth less and less. So what do you do? You give people bread and circuses. Also when it comes to combat sports, it's been argued the more bloody, raw and brutal it becomes, the more a ⁓ society's in a downturn. I'm not a fan of like mixed martial arts. I get it. I was a huge fan of boxing. I'm not a tough guy at all. I love pro football. It was pretty violent sport back in the sixties. ⁓ you know, I'm not that guy. I'm not running around ⁓ you know, fighting people or I know friends that have, I know friends that have trained in different things. But I grew up with Mohammed Ali and I grew up with, you know, Joe Frazier. And George Foreman. I love those guys. I really did. I thought, you know, and then when Rocky comes out in 76, I'm 14, like, yay, it's a great movie. And boxing was considered something more of, you know, it was it was a sport with rules and a certain decorum. Fair, you know what I'm saying? Right. It wasn't just bare knuckle beat until somebody's, you know, it was, it was a sport. And ⁓

Charles Hundley Jnr: I'm just saying.

Moore To Consider: I was a big fan of Mike Tyson when that hit, you know, and when he got beat the night by Buster Douglas ⁓ in 1990. I'm watching that on HBO or whatever. Then my whole interest in boxing subsided. I didn't think boxing was the same. And you started, I don't I don't know if this is a measurement of anything with society, but more and more you started seeing a different type of fighting. And I don't know that anybody really walks watches boxing. Again, where did Al Lee really make his first Real notoriety in the public. Think about it. Winning the Olympics. Yeah, I mean, 1960, he's winning the Olympics. Not that he was a total unknown, but you know what I'm saying? The first thing he does is he's in there winning the Olympic goal for the United States and he becomes a thing. And ⁓ you know, a lot of a lot of fighters back then got some level of fame on their way. I think Foreman fought in the Olympics. I think George Foreman did.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Okay. Yes. Hm.

Moore To Consider: He was loved because you know he's out there stamping your hamburgers, you know, and he's just a loved figure. He became yeah. So boxing was one thing. What we're into now is different for good or for bad. But I do think that there's certain measures of society. But also I think if you could put an index on nineteen seventy six, two hundredth anniversary versus people's feelings of the nation today, I don't know what those numbers would be, but it wouldn't be positive.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Okay. Right. Yeah, it's much different. The the outlook on the nation as a whole is not like it was in seventy six. It's not even close. But I do think that a good portion of this has to do with how what we have done as Americans when it comes to how other people our p other people's perception of us doesn't seem to matter any longer.

Moore To Consider: No. No.

Charles Hundley Jnr: We're just looked at as nasty loud Americans. Really. That's what las nasty loud fat Americans.

Moore To Consider: But I would you travel the world. I don't. So I haven't had as much experience or any experience really until recently, you know, going out of the country and everything. So I hear people say very much like you said one of our last shows, they'll s the people will come up to you in foreign countries and say, Love Americans can't stand your government. I get it. Right. ⁓ now that being said.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes. Yep.

Moore To Consider: I think there's an unraveling of the history I wanted to believe. Cause I don't think anything's new under the sun. I think post-American Civil War, and probably starting with the Spanish American War, America started a not only entangling an alliances that Washington warned against, it's sticking your nose in everything. It gets escalated by World War One and by World War Two. Really, the whole structure of power has changed because the U.S. moves to a position it'd never been in before. Now, I'm sure, yeah, I read the George Kennan, the containment theory, and you know, I read all that stuff in graduate school, the the idea of America's sort of policeman of the world. But we have this, we keep discussing it show after show, this like CIA dynamic. How this is formed post-World War II. And you know, Truman. Who's president when this comes down? My greatest regret, we should have never let this thing become what it's become. It was supposed to be an intelligence gathering force to better advise the president. Now they're out there doing clandestine stuff throughout the world, sort of against the wishes of Congress and outside the knowledge of the president. So it becomes its own thing. And I think that's what's concerning. But

Charles Hundley Jnr: Mm-hmm. Right.

Moore To Consider: I don't know. The messing around in Latin America that we did a hundred years ago plus and all, I mean, has it really changed that much? Is America not for some time? I think the difference is our history books, if you're a garden variety American, public educated kid in 1966, you're not here in America bad. Right, right? So so ten years later, when it's the 200th anniversary, you don't know you haven't had a tearing down of the American experience that the student today has.

Charles Hundley Jnr: No. No. That may be true. You and I did a podcast a few months ago and it was what would the founders think about certain things that are going on right now? And I think this is a perfect example of why they are rolling in their graves. It's like so we literally put our asses on the line. We we literally put our necks on the line, really, because they would have been hung. Or if we're doing what they did on, you know, July the fourth, seventeen seventy six, they would have been hung. Mm hmm. Okay.

Moore To Consider: Or the second. We're gonna talk about that in the next show. Or the second. I want to discuss that whole thing. Right. But right. It we celebrate the fourth. But let me ask you this though. Don't you think a lot of that's a romanticized vision as well? Because I think the argument that the people that wanted to fight the revolution had a vested economic interest in the outcome. Whereas, and I've heard these numbers and I've had a lot of historians back it, one third of the colonists wanted to fight the revolution. One third did not.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Right. Well

Moore To Consider: And one third was waiting around to see who was going to win. So it's not this revolution in the sense that some people we were taught maybe in the third grade, it was like ninety seven point six percent were all behind. They weren't. I mean, there was a there was a there was that third that was really still loyal to England because they had an echo, especially the South, because they were trading cotton. Go ahead.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Well well also because they didn't know any better. That's what it was.

Moore To Consider: Maybe, but well, I do think that that connection that the South had in the textile industry directly trading cotton to England gave them a different view. It was the New Englanders that had a different economic concern relative to Great Britain. And again, then there's a third of the colonists out there. Hey, I'm a trapper. I'm out there on the frontier. I could give it a whoever wins, I'm okay. However that plays out for me. But we want to make it. I say we. The world I grew up in wanted to go, Washington was virtuous, Franklin was virtuous, blah, blah, blah. They were all just wonderful men. I think they were practical men. And that's why I'll, you know, I've said in show after show, the Constitution's nothing more than the skeletal document of this is the framing of the country, how it's going to be run. It's not the declaration. The declaration was a different document.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes, completely different. But the ideal the meaning of the document is there was nothing like that before. And s so what these gentlemen did at that time, as I said, they put their necks on the line and they wanted something different than what had ever been on the planet, you know, prior to that. So I don't think that they

Moore To Consider: I agree. I agree. Totally. They did that.

Charles Hundley Jnr: they would be happy as to how we celebrate the risks that they took to do what they did. I think they would be quite pissed about it, honestly. And

Moore To Consider: Yeah. Well, but I I just think that the the the the main thing that's been torn down is I really do believe that the people we call the framers looked at the several states, the colonies becoming the several states as their own little nations. And all these little nations got together and said, Okay, we have a need for a common defense. Let's have a common current currency, let's have an interstate

Charles Hundley Jnr: Hold on, but hold on but you're talking about the co the you're talking about the constitution, I'm talking about the declaration of independence. Those are two different things, man. So

Moore To Consider: I know, I know, no I know they're two different things, Charles, but my point is I think those people today would say, hey, what the hell happened to the Republic? What's all this democracy bullshit you people keep talking about? Democracy. They didn't want a democracy. They didn't want any aspect of a democracy other than you voted for your dumbass member of the House. It could be a farmer down the street. This we said this, the senators are sent by the states, the president's elected by the states. They had no concept of what we have today, a top-down government. That's what I'm saying. I think would most shock them is like the president has that much power? The executive, they wouldn't see that. So what it was, it was a destruction of the republic. And the destruction of the republic is a moving away of seeing each state as its own little independent nation that only goes together under the union of the Constitution for the common purpose of defense. That's about it. That's all I'm saying. That's I think I think that's the thing they were turned over their grave most about is what just happened to the formation. But you're right. In the declaration, the declaration is about this is our message to the world on why we're doing this, why we're making this break. And now we're forming a new government. And the constitution, like you're saying, is fifteen years away. Well, not fifteen years, roughly 10 years away. Its ratification is close to fifteen. So they're not even they're not even conceiving a constitution yet. So I agree with you. The document of foundation to make the break is one thing, but they would not have envisioned the world that it's become.

Charles Hundley Jnr: All right.

Moore To Consider: Post Constitution, they wouldn't see this at all.

Charles Hundley Jnr: No. No.

Moore To Consider: But I go ahead. So what what else do you think? You're you say they're rolling their grave. We'll close on this and we'll go to our next show. We'll do another show on on some more about this. But but go ahead. You're you're saying rolling their grave because they're because the country's missing the declaration at this point.

Charles Hundley Jnr: The con s once they got to the point in the Constitution, pretty much all of the threat was gone. That's what makes a declaration so much different than the Constitution. Because the Constitution really had no no authority at all. They they ha as you say, they weren't even trying to put together a country yet. They were just saying, We're going to separate for these reasons. And they were noble reasons. And for us to celebrate those noble reasons with a UFC fight in the back of the White House, in my personal opinion, is a slap in the face to all those people who literally put their necks on the line. Well. for us to celebrate those noble reasons with a UFC fight in the back of the White House, in my personal opinion, is a slap in the face to all those people who literally put their necks on the line.

Moore To Consider: I can't argue with that. Like I mean, you're an American. You love your country. You served your country. You wore its uniform. So if you're saying it's offensive to you, I back you, brother. You know, I to me I'm kind of indifferent to it. I think it's sad in some sense. I would have thought hopefully the the celebration would be ⁓ a little bit more. What's the term I'm looking for? We're always searching around for terms. again, maybe. maybe not as ⁓ kind of gross, I guess. I d I don't know. Yeah, it's it's it's something that looks

Charles Hundley Jnr: Right, right.

Moore To Consider: I don't know, what am I looking for? What's what's the word here? And gross is not exactly right, but it's it's unbecoming. Unbecoming, I think is the term I use. Yeah, it's kind of unbecoming, especially of a nation in its t because we're not gonna get another two hundred and fiftieth. And we probably won't live to see the three hundredth. You know, hopefully we do, but you know, it's gonna be a little bit out of our range probably. You're gonna be pushing a hundred and five. So, you know, so this is gonna be that quarter of a a millennium, you know, that this is it. And ⁓ anything else to say other than your disappointment.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yes. No. Right. Okay. No, that that's it, man. It I just wish it could have been something different, but it's powerful to course, it seems like. No.

Moore To Consider: I would be interested to find out. Let's do this before the next show or before one of our let's find out if there's any polling going on. I'm sure there is. There I'd like to know what the polling is about what percentage of Americans are for this. This this form of seller. It's a really good question. All right. This has been more to consider. Please like and subscribe. Please share. Comment and Charles will read the comments. Thank you, brother.

Charles Hundley Jnr: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Yep. Yes, I will. All right, Ron.